Paul Gavan (Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Leas-Chathaoirleach. We are in the challenging situation of there being very few amendments we can specifically speak to. The amendments tabled by Senators Boyhan and Higgins pull together a number of our key concerns, albeit in asking for a report on them because that is what we are apparently restricted to, for the most part, today.

I will cut to the chase. I hope the Minister knows he is someone I absolutely respect. He has taken courageous stances on occasion. I have recognised that on more than one occasion. None of what I will say is personal. However, as the Minister ultimately responsible for this Bill, I do not understand how someone with a track record of human rights advocacy can stand over a Bill that arbitrarily excludes 24,000 survivors on the basis of this six-month date. I do not understand how he can stand over the issue of 4,800 people who were boarded out or, as a person who is qualified in law, how he can stand over a Bill that, effectively, classes victims or survivors and puts them into different tiers. That is not right. It is fundamentally wrong that some people will get compensation and others will not because of an arbitrary date of six months, or that they will be excluded simply because they were boarded out. I do not how the Minister justifies that.

Given that so many amendments have apparently been ruled out of order, I would like to have a meaningful exchange with the Minister on this. I want to give him the opportunity to explain the rationale behind it and ask him directly whether, as Senator Doherty said previously, it was a decision based on finance. Is that what we are talking about here? The Bill will cost approximately €800 million. Sinn Féin has costed it to include those other 24,000 people, which would add a further €400 million to that total. We urge the Minister to still do this. We urge him to be inclusive. If he is ruling it out on financial grounds, he should at least have the courage to stand up and say that. I have to be honest. The Minister seems to have sidestepped the rationale behind putting people into different tiers and classes and I do not see how that can be justified. I honestly do not.

Equally, on the timeframes, this six-month period means if people are above the line, they get some compensation but if they are below it, they do not. How can that possibly be justified? That is what people who are writing to us and contacting us each day have been asking for months. I am genuinely at a loss as to why the Minister has not held ground on this and ensured that this Bill is truly inclusive. I am genuinely puzzled by that. Other parties on the right have a very poor track record on issues around this. We know that but this is a Green Party Minister agreeing to a Bill that excludes people. I will be very direct with him. If this Bill passes, I do not think people in years to come will talk about him as the Minister who resolved these issues. They will talk about him as the Minister who excluded tens of thousands of survivors from getting compensation and justice. I have to ask the Minister why he would want that.

Let us face it: most of us will get pegged out of the Houses at some stage. All we then have is to look back to see what we did when the pressure was really on. Did we do the right thing? Did we stand up in the right way? One of the key differences between the Minister and me is that, as the Minister, he has power.He is the Minister. As I said before, he is someone who has shown courage in the past. I am completely bewildered as to how he will not do the right thing here. This is the last chance for us to make important changes to this Bill to make it inclusive and to do the right thing, and I cannot help but believe that inside the Minister must know there is something fundamentally wrong with the Bill as it stands. He must know that. I want to hear in his response a clear rationale for this arbitrary six months and why there was this decision to exclude so many survivors. It cannot be justified. It does not stand up.

There are other points on Senator Boyhan’s amendments which are all very important. The five years is another arbitrary figure. Why do that? It does not have to have that five years in it. Then there are those who were victims of drug trials by GlaxoSmithKline and Pfizer. Again, I do not understand why the Minister would not take on board reasonable amendments on that and the very reasonable suggestion that we might look at funds from the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth in Ireland being allocated, if necessary, to provide assistance. There are a whole host of issues here.

I looked at the Minister’s speech on Second Stage in detail and again this morning, and I put it to him that he has not directly answered the very serious charges about why the Government has decided to exclude these people, the tens of thousands of survivors. It is another failure for these people. It is not right and it leaves a really bad taste in the mouths of all these people. They are watching today and I think the Minister owes them a direct explanation. Even better, it is three weeks since Second Stage, so the Minister has had three weeks since we appealed to him to give this further consideration and to look again and be inclusive. He could see how we can really make a difference for these people yet, unless I am mistaken, he has decided to make no changes and to do nothing further and I do not think that is acceptable. I look forward to the Minister’s response. It is to be hoped we can tease out his stance on all this.