Barry Ward (Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit agus roimh an mBille atá an-tábhachtach ar fad. Gabhaim mo chuid buíochais agus buíochas ghrúpa Fhine Gael le Bridget McManus as an tuairisc a rinne sí ar an ábhar seo agus leis an ngrúpa as an obair atá déanta aige. This is a very important Bill. It may be a niche area but it will have much wider repercussions than much of the legislation of this technical element and size that goes through the House. In his speech the Minister of State mentioned a number of issues that are very important with regard to the functioning of our criminal justice system and access to justice for people. Something I have said in the Chamber on a number of occasions is that we have a very functional, fair and reasonable criminal justice system that works for the victims and defendants before the courts and for the people who need the system to function.

One of the areas where we are definitely falling down is in terms of the time it takes to deliver decisions on all kinds of legal matters, be they disputes between individuals, disputes between individuals and the State or companies or, of course, criminal prosecutions. For example, those asking in the Circuit Court today for a trial date will be looking at a date in the second half of 2025. The same is true of the Central Criminal Court. This is grossly unfair on the people involved in the cases, be they victims, defendants or witnesses. This is something we must address as a matter of urgency. I believe the Bill will go a very long way towards doing so.

I welcome the fact the Minister has previously indicated that this is not only about appointing judges but also about providing the resources those judges need to function. This means court rooms, spaces where cases can be heard and the Civil Service and Courts Service staff who are there to make sure the courts can run properly. One without the other does not work and will not improve the situation.

I very much welcome the fact we are addressing this problem. The number of judges the Minister of State has mentioned for the Court of Appeal, the High Court, the Circuit Court and the District Court will go a very long way towards helping us to address the very unfair and problematic delays there are in terms of getting cases dealt with in the courts. The report from Bridget McManus and her group has been tremendously important in establishing the need for these changes. It is something we all see. Anybody dealing with any individual throughout the country will have heard complaints about the delays there have been in bringing cases to trial and bringing cases through.

In his speech the Minister of State mentioned the importance of the functionality of the courts and, therefore, access to justice. This is a fundamental right constitutionally and in terms of the European Convention on Human Rights. Access to justice comes in a number of different ways, not least of which is representation before the courts. I foresee a repercussion from this Bill of which the Department must be aware. This is that many of these positions will be filled from the Bar and the roll of solicitors. These are people who are practising in our courts and providing legal services. As they leave they will have to be replaced. At present, as the Minister of State knows, there is a real problem, particularly in the sphere of criminal legal aid, with the number of people entering the criminal Bar and criminal practice as solicitors. Of all of the groups to have their fees cut at the time of the financial emergency in this country, legal aid solicitors and barristers have not had the cuts unwound. They are the only group. For some reason, the Department of Justice or the Government has decided it is somehow acceptable to single out this one group and decide their fees should not be restored. The cuts they endured of between 30% and 35%, depending on how it is measured, have never been unwound.There may not be evidence of it, because it is very difficult to enumerate whether somebody has decided to leave the practice of criminal law in favour of another area of law or in favour of another industry altogether because of those fees. That is difficult to establish. Anecdotally, however, we know that there are far fewer people going into the practice of law at the beginning of the qualification stage. There are more and more senior people, particularly in criminal law who are choosing to go into a different industry, to leave the Bar, or to leave practice as a solicitor to go in-house or into a different area of law. That is real. As more and more practitioners are taken out of the criminal sphere, that will exacerbate that problem. One of the key ways the Government can address that is to have a responsible approach to the levels of payment available to those practising in criminal legal aid. What people do not understand when we talk about this, is that we are not just talking about defence practitioners. In this House we talk all of the time about the importance of dealing with serious offences against individuals. However, the pay for prosecution counsel or solicitors, and defence counsel or solicitors, is the same. There is a statutory instrument that ties the two together and they cannot be different. When defence fees are cut, the prosecution fees are cut as well. People are discouraged from being available to prosecute important matters and make sure perpetrators of criminal activity are brought to justice.

The time has come, particularly in light of the reforms in this Bill, to change the Government's attitude to the paltry approach to the payment of important professionals who, by the way, save the State a small fortune in terms of what they provide it. The State does not have to pay employer's PRSI, holiday pay, sick pay, parental, maternity or paternity leave. None of that has to be covered by the State. It has a coterie of independent practitioners who pay all of their own bills. They are all self-employed. They look after themselves. The State pays less per capitafor legal aid in this jurisdiction than in any other common law jurisdiction in the world that I am aware of. The State gets excellent value for money for legal aid, notwithstanding the efforts of some in the media to paint huge figures, which of course include VAT as well. The reality is that we know the importance of paying people properly for the job they do. When we stop paying them properly, then that job is not done or is not done properly. One of the features of the Bar, in my opinion, is that lots of people come to it as more mature people from a second career, and they may be older. If you are coming to the Bar in your 30s with children and a mortgage you cannot practice criminal law because you cannot afford to. The reality is that the only people going into criminal law are those who are straight out of college. That is a real shame, and it is a real missed opportunity. I hope the Minister of State will bring the message back to his Department and to the other Ministers in the Department that this has to end. We need to take serious concrete steps towards restoring legal aid fees. It is something I have said before, on a number of occasions, and I know he is aware of the arguments.

Finally, I note we have missed another opportunity because about 25 or 30 years ago, we changed the retirement age of judges, particularly in the superior courts. It was reduced from 72 to 70, which means that as soon as judges hit 70, they have to retire. I think that is totally unnecessary. I would like to see that undone. I know there are concerns but the reality is that most people are functioning later in life. They are able to work later and want to work later. If there is an experienced judge who is willing to work later than 70, then he or she should be able to do that. I am not saying we should not put controls or safeguards in place to ensure that person is still able to do the job. Maybe there could be an annual approval by the president of that court or by an outside body. We have in our Judiciary a coterie of people who are really effective. They are really fair. They follow the rule of law and they do an excellent job for this country. Cutting them down at 65 or 70, depending on the court, is an unnecessary waste of that human capital. It also addresses the issue we have with the availability of judges to deliver the accessibility to justice referred to in the Minister of State's speech. I welcome the Bill on behalf of the Fine Gael group. It is a forward step and I look forward to the appointment of those judges to smooth through those cases being delayed in our system as it stands.