Lorraine Clifford-Lee (Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

It is positive that we are having this debate. The citizens' assembly will hopefully be established as soon as possible and this very important issue will be discussed. It has been on the cards in these Houses for a number of years and I am glad the programme for Government prioritised it. Halfway through the Government term, it is about time to make progress on it. Citizens' assemblies play an important role in informing discussion. We have seen that in plenty of citizens' assemblies on very difficult issues that we may have thought we would never have been able to overcome as a society. We have used this important vehicle to do that. It has been recognised internationally as a really good model. I have spoken with parliamentarians across the world who have inquired about our citizens' assembly model. They had very good and interesting questions and obviously did a lot of research and thinking about it. We are to be commended on putting this forward. The model of having 100 members of society from across all ages and places in the country is a really good one. It provides a temperature as to where Ireland is. The debate they have informs the wider debate and educates us. While we are all very much aware of the harm that illicit drug use does in our communities, we might not be as on top of the facts of it and how we overcome it. I recently listened to a podcast called "Drugs and Ireland - the Citizens Assembly", which was put together and produced my colleague Deputy McAuliffe and Councillor Briege McOscar. It had some excellent contributors. People like Senator Ruane, Fr. Peter McVerry and Philly McMahon spoke about the actual impact on families and communities, and how they see the way forward. It definitely informed my position on it. Before that, I would have thought I knew a lot about it. I certainly know a lot more after listening to that podcast. We could all educate ourselves a little more about the issues involved. Let us hear from the health experts. If we are going to go down the road of a health-led approach, which is best in my opinion, we must ensure that people are afforded the resources and treatment centres to come off drugs. In Dublin we have very few beds if someone wants to come off any sort of narcotic. People taking heroin are often put on another drug, methadone, rather than receiving proper treatment. They are not given the support to come off it, nor any other supports around family, social care, or anything like that. We are really failing people. Consequently, there cannot be a health-led approach. People who are often from vulnerable communities are self-medicating because they are living in intergenerational poverty and face abuse, trauma, lack of adequate housing or lack of education, job opportunities or training development. They are self-medicating. There is of course a difference between decriminalising and legalising. If we are proposing to decriminalise, we are just removing that extra barrier for people who might be caught with a small amount of drugs, then they must be given the support to properly come off drugs. We cannot just decriminalise them and send them on their merry way. I think that would be even worse. Even if people enter the prison system they are at least afforded the resources to come off drugs, so that might even be a better approach than decriminalising and not giving them any extra medical or health supports. As a society, we have to listen and learn over the next couple of months. It is really important. However, the narrative should not be put out there that we are saying it is okay to take drugs and there is nothing harmful. Of course drugs are harmful. Alcohol is harmful. Cigarettes are harmful. People should avoid them, but they do not. People take drugs, they drink alcohol and they smoke. If people do get into difficulties, they need to be informed and supported to lead a healthier lifestyle. The media is going to play an important role over the next couple of months. It is regrettable that we have seen some irresponsible journalism in recent days. Journalists have been contacting Deputies and Senators to find out if they have taken drugs in the past. That has nothing to do with this debate. It is just forming clickbait. It has nothing to do with this debate or how we are going to move this situation forward. Journalists play a very important role in our democracy and active citizenship, but if we are reducing things down to whether this Minister or that Deputy took drugs years ago, so what? It is of absolutely no relevance. We should be discussing what models are used internationally. What parts of the United States have done this? What problems have they had and how have they overcome them? That is what we should be focusing on and that is responsible journalism, not just producing clickbait. We have to be very hard on the drug cartels causing untold misery to vulnerable communities and vulnerable people. We have seen very young people across Dublin and outside sucked into the drugs trade and playing very senior roles in it. It is abusive. Eleven-year-olds, 12-year-olds and 13-year-olds are being dragged in as drug mules, getting involved in violence and dying. They are getting involved in various acts of violence themselves. We have to be very hard on these drug cartels. The violence and intimidation has to stop. The Minister of State has said we need to reduce supply and demand. I agree with her 100%. I look forward to this motion passing today, and the citizens' assembly being established. Let us get on with it because what we are doing at the moment is clearly not working.