Gerry Horkan (Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Minister of State for his quite comprehensive but very technical briefing. When he spoke at speed about amending section 3 of the Fuels (Control of Supplies) Act 1971 "where there is a Government order in place under section 2 of the Act", and so on, I was reminded of an episode of "Yes Minister" or "Yes, Prime Minister". I do not think people looking in are really getting to grips of what the nub of this is about. That is not a reflection on the Minister of State or the Bill itself; it is just that by its very essence, it is quite technical.

I was also taken by the fact that the Bill transfers power from the Minister for the Environment, Climate and Communications to the Minister for Transport. At the moment that means a transfer from the Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan to the Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan. This may not always be the case. I wonder if the right hand will know what the left hand is doing. I understand why it is happening but it is slightly interesting that it is the way it is.

I was asked a question by somebody who was a member of the county council in Wexford. They had put down a motion looking for more oversight of this measure because they had a concern about the reference in the Bill to "emergency". I am not sure where the legislation defines exactly what an "emergency" is. Many people, particularly in the Minister of State's party but also generally, would accept that climate change is an emergency. If climate change is an emergency and we regard it as such, does that mean the Minister could decide to ration petrol or diesel? Could he say that internal combustion engine cars are no longer entitled to fuel and that it is reserved for public service vehicles, goods vehicles or vans? I am not saying that this is the purpose of this Bill, but I suggest we should make sure the public is reassured that it is not the purpose of the Bill. We must emphasise that it is much more about putting in the required legislation to update the 1971 Act, which is probably older than many people in this Chamber, surrounding the State's ability to manage stocks in an emergency.

Many people agree that climate change is an emergency, but it is not the same as the kind of post-earthquake emergency happening in Türkiye and Syria at the moment. Tens of thousands of people have lost their lives and many more are injured. I am unsure if it was in the opening statement but perhaps the Minister of State can articulate what is meant by an "emergency", or show me where it is set out in the legislation. How can we reassure people who drive their cars in very rural areas without much access to public transport that they are not going to be told the Minister has decided we are in an emergency, and petrol stations are now limiting fuel to emergency workers, good vehicles and public transport vehicles, or something along those lines? I do not believe that is the nature of the Bill but it has been flagged to me. That is why it is important that we get clarity on what emergencies are actually provided for.

As Senator O'Reilly said, it is important to emphasise that this is very much an oil emergency. The name of the Bill refers to "Oil Emergency Contingency". The less reliance we have on oil and on fossil fuels generally - this is particularly about oil, rather than gas - the more we reduce our overall reliance as a country. Certainly electric vehicles, active travel and public transport will do that. All of that is absolutely essential. Likewise, if more electricity can be generated by wind, we will reduce our dependency on oil. All those various things are important, but we are certainly not in a place yet where we do not need oil.I heard a figure years ago that we import €6 billion or so worth of oil a year. I am not sure what the figure is currently. We are certainly reliant on it. Lots of our heating systems are oil based. Lots of our cars are petrol and diesel based. Clearly, aviation is an important area of activity for our country, being an island, more so than many other countries that could rely on trains and so on to get from one country to another.

In the Minister of State’s concluding remarks, he might outline the hierarchy of emergencies and reassure us that this is not about that particular area of reducing people and telling people that they are not allowed to use their cars before they transition to electric vehicles and we get them all using active travel and so on. It is important. We have legislation in place that gives the Minister powers in an emergency and I am supporting this Bill in that context. However, it is important we reassure people and bring people with us. This is not a stalking horse to stop people using oil in the interim before they can move to a better fuel source and a better way of moving around.