Paddy Burke (Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I would dispute the ruling that was made in relation to the two previous amendments. This funding is paid by individuals into the pot. It is not Exchequer funding. I dispute the ruling that is made here. Those amendments have been rightly tabled to be discussed on the floor of the House. Senators Craughwell and Boyhan had to find a way around amendment No. 19 so that the Minister would come back with a report. I would ask that the ruling be looked at.

Amendment No. 21, in the name of Senator Craughwell, mainly affects Members of this House and the Dáil. It is only now that we are seeing the effects of decisions that were made as far back as the term in office of the former Minister for Finance, Charlie McCreevy, who increased the age at which Members of the House would get a pension from 50 up to 65, 66 or 67, depending on when the State pension age would kick in. I have great sympathy for newly elected Members of both Houses. Indeed, I know the Minister has sympathy in this regard as well.

A teacher who is elected to these Houses can go back teaching within a certain number of years. They can go back after five years or perhaps ten years in the case of an extension. After the last election, some of those who were giving out about self-employed people coming in here were able to go back teaching. When a Deputy or Senator who was self-employed before coming in here, or who had been working for a company and gave up his or her job to come in here, leaves or loses his or her seat, he or she receives no money, or nothing other than a couple of months' worth of payments. Of course, the shorter the period one spends here, the less one will get when one goes. One is not entitled to jobseekers' payments or any social welfare benefits.

I have great sympathy with this amendment. We should pursue it if we want get people to come in here who are self-employed or are working for companies other than State companies. Members pay the class K contribution while they are in here. If they are only here for a short period of time - perhaps less than ten years - they face a very bleak outlook when they lose their seat. They have families, mortgages and all of the things that every other family has.

The vast majority of the public thinks that when people leave this House, whether it is through retirement or through other ways, they are wealthy or whatever. I do not know any independently wealthy people who are coming in here. I certainly do not think there are any such people in this room or in either House at this point in time. I fully support this amendment. I know that the Minister has sympathy here as well.

There is no doubt that the current arrangements will stop people coming in here. As somebody said, it is a huge risk to stand for public life. When a person is elected but then loses at the subsequent election, he or she has everything to lose. He or she might lose every single thing - his or her house and family and all sorts of things. I have great sympathy in relation to this.

Perhaps the Minister for Finance should look at reducing the pension age from 65 back down to 50. There were very good reasons for it coming in at 50. It is only now that it is affecting people. It has not affected anyone before this. If one goes through the last batch of people who lost their seats in this House and the other House, one will see that very few of them have got employment and that they got nothing when they left.

That leads me to my final point. Each one of us is seen – I forget the right term for it – as a person of interest. If you go for a bank loan, you are a person of interest. If you go for a job interview after you leave here, you are a person of interest. When does the status of “person of interest” go away? It puts many constraints on Members of these Houses. You have to divulge all sorts of things. People might not want to employ you because you are person of interest and because of all the stuff it attracts. I ask the Minister, as a member of the Government, to tell us when the "person of interest" status that we all have goes away after we leave these Houses.