Barry Ward (Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I also have sympathy with these amendments and I understand where the proposers are coming from. It would be wonderful if we had judges who were proficient in ISL. I recognise what the Minister said about the Irish Sign Language Act 2017. I also recognise that even if the judge in a single-judge sitting, or all the judges in a multiple-judge court, was proficient in sign language, the reality is they could do their work through sign language alone. They will always be relying on an interpreter because there would be registrars and other people in the court who will most likely require those interpretation services. As the Minister said, it is important that anybody who is an ISL user will have equal access to justice, just as people who are Irish-language speakers should have equal access to the court. From the point of view of what a judge does in the course of a hearing, he or she will be sitting there and - without wishing to use a term pejoratively - will be listening to the arguments and making notes. If there were a judge or judges who were competent to conduct a hearing through ISL, with the benefit of an interpreter for those who could not understand ISL, it would not be feasible for a hearing to be conducted in that way. For that reason, I do not think it is a relevant consideration, particularly when no similar requirement exists for the registrar, the Courts Service officials or the lawyers. We would still require the facilitation of translation in the courtroom.However desirable it might be to have a judge who does not just have a competence in Irish Sign Language but, perhaps more important, an understanding of what it is to communicate through ISL and what that means in the context of a court setting, the reality is that judge would not be able to conduct his or her function through sign language. This is because of the need to take notes, maybe to consult texts, or to read documents that have been presented before the court. That in and of itself means the requirement for a judge to have an ISL competency is negated in real terms, however desirable it might be.