Michael McDowell (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I heard what the Minister said; I listened in my room and looked at these figures. I looked today at the budget Estimates for next year and noticed that the increase is in fact in the order of approximately 6%. That would be fine, if we were not in a situation where inflation is now running at between 6% and 8%. I want to impress upon the Minister that it is all very well to come to the House and flash figures around but the amount of money provided for in the budget, which received such acclaim the other day, is in fact more or less in line with the rate of inflation. As the Minister will recall, the Government said it was determined to have the real value of expenditure in 2022 terms increased to €1.5 billion. Obviously, with inflation going the way it is, it will clearly be more than €1.5 billion, unless some major miracle takes place over the next number of years.

I am just making the point that this year, and I do not think we can get away from it, we are projecting to stand still in respect of the expenditure we are earmarking under the budget. Let us not fool ourselves. In a period of 6% to 8% inflation, to provide for a 6% increase in the budget for the Defence Forces will not make progress towards the targets the Minister has set. I support those targets. I also support him in saying that level of ambition 3 is where we should be going rather than level of ambition 2 because we are talking about relatively modest sums in 2022 terms. We are talking about €65 million per year over six years, which is not a huge sum of money.

I echo what other speakers have said. We have to face up to the fact that we are not going into NATO and most Irish people do not want us to do so. However, that does not absolve us from the need to have properly resourced Defence Forces. The problems with retention of soldiers and sailors is a serious matter. I do not envy the Minister in responding to it because he obviously has to control expenditure but there is a significant outward migration from the Defence Forces, which we have to face up to.

I see Senator Chambers is present. This will not be an all-male occasion and others may also contribute. The Reserve Defence Forces needs attention. The strategy for the Defence Forces envisages that the Reserve will be brought up to a strength of between 3,000 and 4,000 individuals but I am not quite clear on how that is to be done. If the Reserve is going to be made up of people who have served in the Defence Forces and are then designated reservists that is one thing, but there is a role for voluntary reservists and the Government should spend some time considering what roles they can carry out. The experience of An Garda Síochána with its reserve has been very unsatisfactory. We can be complacent, and Senator Clonan can say that in 20 years' time we may not have Óglaigh na hÉireann at all and may have something else, but we would be very foolish, even looking at this island in its present state and what might happen in respect of divisions in Northern Ireland, to run our Defence Forces lower in terms of their numbers. Looking around Europe, there is nothing wrong with having women and men who are capable being brought in to aid the civil power, along the lines that the FCA did and the Reserve Defence Force does now, to assist the Government. It is a sad fact that the number of people who could take orders and fire a rifle in Ireland has dwindled to a very low number. We have to consider the Reserve in that context.