Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

This is a large grouping of amendments, but it has a couple of themes.

Senator Gavan is right. There is not a magic number. There is no magic number for many things in life, though, and we have to make judgment calls. During this process, I have tried to show a willingness to engage on the number. The Senator is right again, in that the number has changed as a result of that engagement. That is because I listened, particularly to the voices of some students' union representatives. There is someone in the Public Gallery who was a president of the Trinity College students' union, Ms Leah Keogh, who convinced me to change my mind about the number of seats that students' unions should have on the governing authority from two to three. That was a sensible decision in light of the rationale explained to me concerning the difference between undergraduate and postgraduate students. I hope that this example encourages people in general and shows that changes can be made and that they can influence and make a difference to legislation.

Through the regulatory architecture that this legislation will put in place, we are trying to ensure that the governing authorities can set regulations over how they appoint their boards. I wish to be clear, in that I have no interest in me or my successors hand-picking every external representative to a board. That is not the purpose of this provision.The purpose is to have an external majority and to bring a skill set onto a board. I do not think the Senator meant me directly but he said ministerial representatives tend to favour business. The best managerial appointment I made to a governing authority was Noeline Blackwell. The head of the Dublin Rape Crisis Centre was my first appointment to a governing authority in UCD. There is a great diversity of people willing to serve.

I said in this House last night and will say again, so there is no confusion on the issue, that county and city councillors have played and continue to play an important role in our governing authorities. Legislation passed by this House and by many in this House and the other House in 2018 on the technological universities did not give councillors a voice on the governing authorities. Under this new structure, regulations will have to be set as to how the boards are filled. Those regulations will have to be agreed by the outgoing governing authorities, which include councillors, and signed off by the Minister of the day, who is currently me. I assure city and county councillors that we value their role, contribution and expertise and will work through this in the regulatory process.

Transitional arrangements are in place where people on boards can be reappointed to finish out terms. We will work through that. I acknowledge that Senator Boyhan raised this issue on a number of occasions.

I come to the amendments put forward by Senators Ruane, Higgins, Black, Flynn and their grouping in the Seanad. I thank my colleague, Senator Dolan, for raising this matter as well. It is a case of listening as a Minister. I am clear in my policy intent that the representatives of the governing authority should be those elected by the students of that authority. Contrary to what I see sometimes on social media and read on posters, I have no interest in hand-picking people to be student representatives on governing authorities. That was never the intent but if it was, why not be explicit about it? I am willing to be explicit about it because when an amendment put forward in this House aligns with my policy view, why not accept the amendment? That is the constructive role Seanad Éireann can play. I thank the USI, student unions, Senators Ruane, Higgins and Dolan, and my colleagues here for their work on this.

I propose to accept amendment No. 108, which will replace the words "student members" with "student union representatives". I hope that puts people's minds at ease. It is a sensible thing to do and shows the value of this House and of working through and teasing through issues. I propose to accept amendments Nos. 125 and 135, which are consequential. If I accept that, it is making sure it carries through to the rest of it.