Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I thank Senators for their amendments. There is quite a wide breadth of issues covered in this grouping. I will try to respond to each, starting with amendments Nos. 56, 57 and 58 in the names of Senator Higgins and others. These amendments relate to expanding on the names of the organisations and agencies that are listed and prescribed in the legislation. I understand what the Senator is trying to do here and in truth, I half wonder if we would have been better naming none. I take the point the Senator makes but I would respectfully suggest that if we name these bodies, then people will ask about Teagasc, for example, or some of the other research bodies. I am not being flippant or smart here but there is such a breadth of research bodies in this country and this is always the risk when one gets into naming. I am satisfied with the way the legislation is currently written. Section 17(7)(b)(iv), specifically references: "a body established by or under an enactment in which functions are vested by statute or otherwise relating to purposes connected with the provision of higher education by designated institutions of higher education and that is prescribed by order of the Minister for the purposes of this section." I would make the broader point, which I have made previously, that we will have a research Bill coming before the Oireachtas next year, which I am really looking forward to. I think it will be the first time we have ever had stand-alone legislation on research.There will perhaps be a chance to tease out some of these issues, including where the Irish Research Council, Science Foundation Ireland and others fit into the landscape under Impact 2030. I take what the Senators are trying to do. If I expanded the list at this stage based on these amendments, I would probably still have left others out. I am satisfied that the intent is clear. We can revisit some of these matters in the research legislation next year.

Let me be clear on the issue of the local authorities and councillors. As Senator Craughwell suggested, I know city and county councillors well. I particularly know my party colleagues well. I was a councillor. I appreciate and value the role of our local representatives. Senator Carrigy made important points about the on-the-ground knowledge of democratically elected people. It is not the intention of this legislation by any manner or means to dilute or diminish in any way the role of our local authority representatives. I will make the point that the Technological Universities Act, which any of us lucky enough to be Members of the Oireachtas in 2018 voted on, already made a number of changes in respect of governing authorities. We will get to that section of this Bill later. In respect of governing authorities, I am saying it is clear that when we pass this legislation, regulations will have to be set for how a governing authority will be composed with the new configuration. Those regulations have to be put forward by a governing authority and approved by the outgoing governing authority on which councillors sit. The regulations then have to be approved by me, as Minister. I see a role for councillors and local representatives in that regard. The regulatory process is where we will explore those issues and how best to address them. There is a specific section of the Bill to deal with that so I will not expand on it now.

Amendments Nos. 75 and 76 deal with the section of the Bill that includes a provision that An tÚdaras shall prepare an equity of access, participation and promotion of success plan, and who should be consulted about that. I am happy that there is already provision in the Bill in that regard. Let me clear that the provision will cover consultation with local authorities and, specifically, with local authority members who are democratically elected city and county councillors.

Amendment No. 84 proposes to include specific reference to trade union representatives of both academic and professional staff in consultation on the preparation of the equality statement. I thank Senators Higgins, Ruane, Flynn and Black for the amendment. There is already provision for consultation with employees of the institution under section 62(4)(e). It is my view that this is perhaps a more inclusive way of providing for consultation with trade union representatives of both academic and professional staff. There is also provision for consultation with "such other body or person as the institution considers appropriate".

I do not believe amendments No. 115, 115a, 115b, 115c or 115d are necessary as provision for the governing authority to consult on an equality policy of a university. Governing bodies are empowered. I am conscious of the debate around autonomy, about which we rightly hear a lot in this House. We value autonomy. It is about trying to get the balance right between putting the structures in place to empower a governing authority and allowing it to get on with its own internal governance. I am satisfied that the provisions in the legislation cover all of that.

The Minister of State, Deputy Collins, is going to take the debate about the next section. Finally in this group are amendments Nos. 142 and 143. They are similar to an earlier an amendment in that they refer to local authorities, city and county councillors. I would make the same point again. This is a specific provision in respect of the National College of Art and Design. My earlier answer stands.