Victor Boyhan (Independent) | Oireachtas source

The Minister is very welcome. I also welcome John O'Connor from the Housing Agency. At the outset, I acknowledge the work of Caroline Timmons, a very able person in the Department, who has aided, assisted and supported the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Housing, Local Government and Heritage to deal with the complexities of this issue, and all of the Department's staff.

I also welcome the homeowners affected by this issue in Donegal, Mayo, Clare, Limerick and other counties, whom I have no doubt are tuned in to this debate. In preparation for today, I took a look at the Official Report of the Dáil proceedings, in particular the debate from Wednesday, 6 July. To say the least, the debate was characterised by bitter recrimination and, as we now know, led to the resignation of the Fine Gael Deputy from Donegal, and former Minister of State, Deputy Joe McHugh. I thank Deputy McHugh for his work on this difficult issue, which has crossed political boundaries and divided so many families. That is a terrible shame. It has happened on other occasions in our history, but we must move on. We want to get people back into homes that are appropriate for them in terms of size, and that are safe and sustainable. A number of amendments were ruled out of order because of extra costs to the Exchequer. I do not know the ins and outs of that, but I want to put a marker down that if it happens on this Bill in the Seanad I would challenge it. I am not sure how many amendments will be allowed. Senators will be focused in their amendments. I do not believe we will have many amendments, but we will have ones that are substantive and that will have to be teased out. I acknowledge the work of Deputy McNamara, an Independent colleague of mine who is a Deputy for Clare, who I know was involved. The reality is that the Bill was passed. We will move on.

We are now in the Seanad. Let us be clear: we hope this Bill will not be guillotined and that we will have sufficient time to tease it out. The guillotine is not a matter for the Minister, it is a matter for this House. If we decide, and a decision is supported to guillotine the Bill, then we are to blame, nobody else - not the Clerk, not the Administration, not the Minister, but we in this House. That is where the blame lies.

I want to touch on a few issues. The Mica Action Group said the Bill before the Dáil was not fit for purpose. It did not give homeowners 100% redress. The Minister addressed some issues, and I am enlightened by what he has had to say, but there are particular concerns. The group says it does not make sense to rebuild on suspect foundations and that the Government in this Bill is ignoring the science on the possible presence of other minerals. It has also argued that people should be allowed to downsize. The Minister reassured me here today that people will be allowed to downsize. The issue is that people thought they could downsize from 2,000 sq. ft to 1,500 sq. ft and keep the difference. There are issues in that regard. This is public money at the end of the day. I am mindful of the fact that this is a redress scheme. It is not really an insurance scheme. It is the State stepping up to the plate, acknowledging that there was wrong and that there were shortcomings on behalf of the State and the monitoring authorities. That is another day's work. We are going to have to pursue the people involved here, because that has sometimes got lost in all the debate.

I say to the Minister that is important that we work together. We have an opportunity in the Seanad to refine and improve the redress scheme. I also acknowledge the Minister's heavy emphasis on the regulations. That is something he has the scope for, and I believe he is sensitive enough to the issues. Politically, practically and realistically, they are issues that we must address. We work in an economy, but we also work in a society and in the context of politics too. There must be proper and democratic engagement in politics. Nobody wants to be the subject of bully-boy tactics by anybody in politics or to be cajoled into a situation and respond in an irresponsible way or in a way that is unreasonable and unfair and draws on the funds, finances and expertise of this State. The State is standing up and acknowledging there were shortcomings. Let us move on now and get people homes. I acknowledge the work in that regard.

This is a very controversial issue and culpability and liability are something on which we need to put a great emphasis. I will not stand up here and name suspect quarries, providers of building materials or builders. We all know that there are issues in that regard. I urge the Minister to commit to pursuing through the courts those that made and sold defective concrete blocks and other products.It is difficult and there are issues involved. I understand the concerns of the action groups around the damage threshold to eligibility for the grants, the shortfall of the mediation costs and the lack of a full financial downsizing option to rebuild a smaller home. The Minister has explained and touched on that. It is important we are with the public and are not tone deaf to the impact of this scandal. The members of the public who have been affected by this are no fools. They know where the blame lies. They know the political games that are being played out by some. At the end of the day, they will decipher the detail of all the promises and ultimately make their own call and act accordingly. That is an important point.

I will touch on a few other points in the time I have remaining. These are areas that have not been touched on comprehensively. Ms Caroline Timmons and the Minister's staff circulated a circular I find helpful. The circular listed a number of items. The Minister has touched on the pathway for other counties and he may touch on it again. The independent appeals process will be fully independent. That is important and we need that reassurance. When is it going to happen? I know there are timelines involved and a process to be followed.

There is an issue over the properties that have been excluded. We must get one principal home for everyone dealt with, but that is an issue of concern. The wrongdoing, public accountability and the public inquiry are issues the members of the public affected by this scandal want to know something about.

There is also the issue of supporting the vulnerable householders. There are people who have been mentally, physically and financially broken and we must support them. We must put in place packages of support. Those people are devastated. People have suggested there are a few scammers out there but I do not buy into that. The majority of the people affected are decent and hard working. Many of them are in their 60s. They are without an income and do not expect to have an income. They want to replace and rebuild their homes. That is important.

There are two further issues I wish to mention. The first relates to ongoing resources for our local authorities. A number of local authorities are going to be burdened for a long time with the responsibility of acting as agents on behalf of the State and the scheme. I would like the Minister to assure us that, particularly in Donegal and the other counties we know are affected, there will be sufficient expertise and professional resources. We do not require them to be allocated permanently. They should be drafted in to complement the local authorities. The Housing Agency has a role in all of this. It is important we have funding in place.

We are going to have to make decisions this week about this Bill. On the whole, my gut feeling is that it is worthy of support. It is a difficult one. There are political considerations in all of our decisions. We are politicians. We must take actions in the common good of the State and consider how best we can address the issues. We must put in a fair and reasonable redress scheme, support the Government and get on with the job.