Barry Ward (Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire. Is é cothromaíocht atá i gceist ag an mBille seo idir, ar lámh amháin, An Garda Síochána, an Stát, agus an Stiúrthóir Ionchúiseamh Poiblí a gcuid oibre a dhéanamh agus, ar an lámh eile, an duine pearsanta agus an pobal.

The issues in this Bill have been aired extensively in the Oireachtas Committee on Justice, in public and in private. I very much welcome the Minister's acknowledgement, at the conclusion of her remarks, the Bill has had a rapid accession through the Houses of the Oireachtas. We all agree that this is undesirable in the circumstances but I acknowledge where this is coming from. I also believe the explanation given by the Department of Justice in the committee around the reasons why earlier action was not taken on data protection rules. We were waiting for the law in this area to crystallise so that we were not passing multiple items of legislation to deal with an evolving situation. I accept that explanation and I believe it makes sense on all of the levels. Unfortunately, it leaves us as legislators in an invidious position because we find ourselves at the last minute trying to go through what is very complex and comprehensive legislation that deals with a whole load of issues.That is why I say this is a balancing act. This Bill is about balancing, on the one hand, the need to give the powers and equipment to An Garda Síochána, the DPP and the State and its organs to do their job in detecting prosecuting and solving crime, especially the kind we are talking about, that serious element of the criminal spectrum, namely, gangland crime and the very subversive element that can exist within the criminal underworld. On the other hand, there are individual rights and the rights of people to their privacy and knowledge in regard to their material that the State has nothing to do with.

We could not at any point tolerate the mass surveillance of the citizenry in the way that exists in other countries, even ones we see as democratic countries. I look, for example, at the US and the extent to which the US Government and law enforcement agencies are entitled and empowered under its legislation to surveil the population, investigate it and look into the privacy of it in a way we would consider completely unwarranted. That is very much distinct from the scheme that is being put forward in this Bill. I am highly conscious of concerns brought forward by groups like the Irish Council for Civil Liberties about mass surveillance or unwarranted invasion of the privacy of individuals. I am conscious of them and have looked at the Bill with a critical eye in that regard. I do not know if this Bill is the right answer or if it is the answer that is the right balance between those two aspects that the Department of Justice in particular must always grapple with. However, I am satisfied there are enough protections in here to deal with the potential issues that have been identified even to this stage in the scrutiny of this Bill.

I am also conscious many of the measures in this Bill are going to require much ongoing measuring, monitoring and surveillance by the Minister's Department and by the appropriate agencies within the State to ensure none of our law enforcement agencies oversteps the mark in their zealousness to get an answer or to find a particular person or evidence against a particular person or group. Issues that were raised in the justice committee were in the context of misuse of information An Garda Síochána might have through various data that are retained by it. I recognise, for example, many provisions are put in place in this Bill and elsewhere to protect information kept on PULSE and information kept by An Garda Síochána from being used in a way not warranted or not appropriate in the context of the kind of investigations discussed in this Bill. I welcome the protections that are there. I am not qualified enough to say definitively whether they are sufficient but I confess I am satisfied that what is described in this Bill is sufficient, provided that on an ongoing basis it is maintained and all of the safeguards discussed are maintained at a high level to protect individual citizens. Not even the most zealous of the people I am talking about in law enforcement want a situation where we have mass surveillance of our citizens. I do not think this Bill provides for that. I recognise the legitimate concerns of people but there are safeguards built in that should satisfy people that this is something that will empower An Garda Síochána and the other law enforcement agencies to do the job they need to do but also to protect us all.

Very often when we talk about the investigation of crime people perceive themselves as potentially the victims of crime instead of potentially the falsely accused person or the person whose privacy is incorrectly or unwarrantedly invaded. All the provisions we put in place - those aspects of the law that prevent the Garda or whoever it might be from doing that - are protections that are there for us as citizens, for every citizen and every resident of this State, and they are appropriate and necessary.

I recognise as well that to a large extent An Garda Síochána will feel its hands have been slightly tied by this legislation and that is undoubtedly the case. The mass availability that might have been there in the past is now gone but that must be seen in the context of a necessary evolution of data protection law in this country arising from the judgments that have been discussed in the Court of Justice of the European Union. On that basis, I welcome the legislation on behalf of the Fine Gael group. I accept the bona fides of the Minister and her Department on the protections set into it but I call for a robust, ongoing engagement on those protections to protect all citizens of this country and to ensure there is no unwarranted overstep. Not only is that illegal and wrong but it massively compromises faith in the organs of the State that do it, so it is important to maintain those protections in place.