Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I thank all Senators for their contributions. I have taken a detailed note of all contributions. I will, during the course of Committee Stage, get an opportunity to respond to many of them. This legislation, as Senator Blaney rightly said, has not just come about in the past two months. It follows more than two years of direct engagement with homeowners through the various fora we have set up, my meetings directly with them, my own officials, the Housing Agency and the liaison group chaired by Mr. John O'Connor and others. I have never seen engagement like it on legislation to improve a scheme. I welcome the constructive remarks of most here today. I recognise that every Senator, regardless of the nature of his or her remarks, wants a scheme in place that works for people. That is what I want, fundamentally.

Anyone who looks at the legislation will see there are major, significant changes from the old scheme to now. It is a significant intervention by the State to the tune of approximately €2.7 billion and potentially more. By the way, in October 2021, I engaged with all Opposition parties in the Oireachtas and wrote detailed letters to them. I say this to Senators Gavan and Boylan and others, because it is important for the record. We need the record of the House to be correct on this. I asked specifically for the input of the party of Senators Gavan and Boylan in to the scheme. The party's housing spokesperson said publicly that he would respond, in detail, to all of the questions that I put to genuinely seek its input. I have still not received that response. It is important that people know that.

We have moved on, with legislation that I will make sure works. Over the summer months, we will be working on the regulations to underpin the scheme. The scheme will, of course, evolve. There is no question of that, but this provides for 100% redress. It provides for a second grant option and a 40-year guarantee that the Minister, Deputy McConalogue, Deputies McHugh and Calleary, Senator Blaney and all Government Senators and Deputies in the affected counties advocated very strongly for, in a constructive way, to work on behalf of their constituents, neighbours, friends and families, to bring about the changes we need. These changes are brought forward here in the Bill.

I know very clearly, because I have engaged with the homeowners, how badly they have been affected through this. I wish to address recourse and we will very shortly appoint a senior counsel review. I want those who caused this problem be brought to account. I have said that publicly in both Chambers. Those who have caused this should be paying into the scheme. I have stated that we would establish a senior counsel review to look at all options, including an industry levy, on which we have been working with the Department of Finance.

I will clearly restate the changes. Entry to the scheme was a considerable issue for homeowners. The original scheme was costing between €5,000 and €7,000 to enter. Many people paid that amount. We have refunded it. I made sure that those moneys were refunded to them. We have removed the financial barrier to entry to the scheme. We will be absorbing the cost of entry to the scheme, and rightly so. An initial homeowner outlay to enter the new scheme will be between €500 and €700 for the cost of a building condition assessment, which will be refunded to homeowners once they are accepted.

This will be a national scheme. Clare and Limerick are already included in it. Senator Maria Byrne asked what would happen to Limerick and Clare. Once the legislation is passed and the regulations are up and running, those counties come in to the scheme. There is a pathway for other counties to do so, should there be problems in those counties. Let us be very clear that if one votes against this legislation, as Senator Gallagher and others have said, one is going back to the January 2020 scheme.They would be going back to a €247,500 grant cap, 90% grant options on all the other remediation options, no guarantee - not even a 20-year one - no second grant option and €7,000 to get into the scheme. We are going back to an imperfect scheme and we would be starting again.

I would say to Senator Flynn, and I thank her for her remarks, that we accepted a number of Deputy Pringle’s amendments in the Dáil . We accepted seven amendments in the Dáil on Committee and Report Stages, and I will be open to listening to amendments here as well. What I do not want though is an ongoing debate into next year and the year after about additions that would delay the establishment of the new scheme.

I said very clearly, particularly in relation to foundations - anybody who wants to be very clear should look at the evidence given - that should an issue be scientifically proven, and if a problem comes up, it will be included in the scheme. We are doing the tests and a review of IS 465 is under way and we will be testing foundations. Are Opposition Deputies and Senators who are opposing this honestly saying to me that we should include that without the scientific evidence, or that we should wait to get other homes under way and remediated in the intervening period?

I am not responsible for the scientific research. I think everyone would fully understand that for an inclusion of something like this or not and to clear that grey area Senator Blaney mentioned, we need that done independently, which is what is happening. I have not heard any alternative from Senators who have been putting their point of view, which I respect, as to what else they would want me to do. Should I just take the advice of one expert against another or do we get it done independently? I think the appropriate thing to do is to have it done independently and assessed in a scientific way.

This scheme and its iterations into the future will be in operation for at least ten years. We need to get started in Donegal, Mayo, Limerick and Clare. We need the Housing Agency on the ground working with our local authorities. I know Senators Cummins and Fitzpatrick are on the Joint Committee on Housing, Local Government and Heritage-----