Seanad debates

Wednesday, 29 June 2022

Payment of Wages (Amendment) (Tips and Gratuities) Bill 2022: Committee and Remaining Stages

 

10:00 am

Photo of Damien EnglishDamien English (Meath West, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Senator for his amendment. He is right that I cannot accept it. I will explain why in a moment. There are two things I agree with. One is the whole area of a deterrent. The greatest deterrent is that one might be caught, more so than the fine itself or the punishment, in our view. That is my understanding of criminal legislation and legislation like this as well.

I also agree with the Senator that the WRC has not proper resources to do its work. We have worked with it over the last couple of years to increase the resources available to it as well. There have been issues and delays in attracting the staff we need, or sourcing them, but I have committed before, as has the Tánaiste, to dealing with the extra resources required there. Extra money has been allocated but we will continue on that journey because the Senator is right there must be enough inspectors within the system to let people know they are going to be caught and have them be afraid of being caught. That is the greatest deterrent above any fines. We agree on that one as well.

The Senator's amendment would change the penalty for breaches from a fine of up to €2,500 to a fine of up to €5,000. This would be far out of line with the penalties included in the Payment of Wages Act 1991 that this Bill amends. That Act provides for fines of up to €1,000. The WRC can also impose a fixed penalty notice of up to €1,500. If these amendments are accepted then breaches of this Bill would have the most serious consequence of any offence under the Payment of Wages Act 1991 and this would not be proportionate.

I appreciate what the Senator is trying to achieve but in the overall legislation we are amending it would not be proportionate, so I cannot accept this amendment. However, the Senator and I discussed, I think on Committee Stage of the Sick Leave Bill, that the overall level of fines is something we need to look at in general across all the legislation. Rather than doing it piecemeal or accepting one amendment here that then distorts the overall payments Act, I agree with the Senator we should look at legislation in general to see whether the penalties are enough of a deterrent. As I said, I believe the chance of being caught is more important than the penalty itself but we should look at the penalties across the system. It affects more than one Department but I am happy to be part of that work. I commit that we take a look at that in general to see if we can make a better impact if we have larger fines in general. However, it should be a general conversation as opposed to individual pieces of legislation here and there, or amendments, because then the overall thing does not have a proper logic.

I hope the Senator accepts I genuinely think we should do that but we cannot accept this amendment because it would not be proportionate.

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