Gerard Craughwell (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I rise to address the Minister as one of his biggest fans when it comes to further education. I came through the further education system. It opened many doors for me and my colleagues. Indeed, some of my colleagues who went through Limerick Senior College in the early 1990s went on to become CEOs of some of the largest corporations in the world and finished up studying in institutions like the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Harvard University and Princeton University. None of them would have got a place in a higher education institute with their leaving certificate results. I am 100% behind the Minister on further education.

Today, I am going to ask the Minister to pause the process. We are moving a little bit too fast here. I am aware the Minister said that there was a consultation process. However, in respect of consultations undertaken in the last few years, he world has moved on since last year, and even further from two years ago. That is particularly the case with Trinity College Dublin. Right now there is a very delicate situation in Northern Ireland. Boris Johnson and his Government are currently ramming through legislation on the Northern Ireland protocol. It has been hailed by one side of the community in Northern Ireland as the motherland defending the rights of the citizen in Northern Ireland. On the other side of the community, it has been regarded as the British Government reneging on a deal that it already agreed to. We have rightly pointed out that the legislation, which is currently passing through the House of Commons, is unnecessary, unwise and probably in breach of international law. In this Bill, particularly in relation to Trinity College Dublin, we are handing one side of the community a stick to beat us with, insofar as we are taking away the autonomy of Trinity College Dublin. I recall that back in the days when I was president of the Teachers Union of Ireland, TUI, we were moving towards the establishment of the technical universities. At that time, I could see the HEA casting its eye over the established National Colleges of Ireland, Trinity College Dublin, Dublin City University and University of Limerick, and thinking it needed to get its hands on that lot as well. Looking at what the institutions have achieved on their own without Government interference, Trinity College Dublin, University College Dublin, National University of Ireland Galway, University College Cork and Maynooth University are recognised all over the world as institutions of excellence.

Two words were used by my colleagues earlier. One was "control" and the other was "competition". I think that competition is healthy. It drives innovation within universities. The freedom and flexibility to move when various things happen within the world economy is what it is all about. Successful universities are able to react immediately. On control, the control should come from the local governing body, not from central Government. There is too much of a drive to drag everything into a central organisation which controls every last move universities make. I wonder how quickly they will be able to react if they are being controlled at every single level. Are we going to kill innovation, and the ability of our universities to raise money either through the corporate sector or attracting students to study in Ireland? It is fantastic that international students come here. The flexibility that our third level institutions have had over the years to attract foreign students is commendable. Looking at Finland, universities in Finland are independent. They receive 64% of their funding from the state. They do not need a higher education authority looking over their shoulder. My own university, the London School of Economics, is an independent university. It does not have anyone looking over its shoulder. I am a little concerned. I have no difficulty with the Minister legislating for the technological universities, which are new entities in this country and have yet to prove themselves. However, I have some difficulty with the Minister stepping into the area that he stepping into with the National Universities of Ireland and Trinity College Dublin. I would also include in that Dublin City University and University of Limerick, both of which are extremely innovative and would match any of the National Universities of Ireland and Trinity College Dublin, in my view. I am concerned. I have heard from various people who are involved in universities around the country that they are going to meet next week to discuss this Bill. If they are telling me that, then there is something terribly wrong here. We have been told that there has been extensive consultation. However, I am being told that the universities are meeting next week to discuss the Bill. If that is the case, we need to take a step back and give the institutions an opportunity to discuss the matter. There is not a lot one can say here in five minutes or eight minutes. Even when the Minister had 15 minutes to speak, he did not finish all his points. If the Minister is not willing to pause the legislative process, we will have to bring forward amendments. I sincerely hope that we do not go down the silly route of guillotining the Bill at some stage before the end of the session. We can always come back to it in September.