Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party) | Oireachtas source

I thank Senators for their contributions today and I thank many of them for their contributions to this process through the children's committee. I am grateful too for their ongoing engagement with me.

Like Senator Boyhan, I visited the site at Tuam last July with the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte. We met Catherine Corless, who showed me the site. We met one or two relatives there and during the course of the day in a nearby hotel, I met different groups of relatives and survivors representing those who were in the institution or whose family members died there and are almost certainly buried on the site.

Senator Boyhan spoke about how tough the joint Oireachtas committee process was and how difficult it was to hear the raw emotion of people who were treated poorly and have been left with fundamental questions about the remains of their children, brothers and uncles. We know the answer to that question. We know where those remains are. They are in a tank. They are not in coffins or in any sort of regular pattern. They were discarded. That is probably the best description.

I had the opportunity in the course of drafting this legislation to work with Dr. Niamh McCullough, who many of the committee members will have seen speak on a number of the documentaries about Tuam and who was involved in the original excavation at that site that was mandated by the commission. Dr. McCullough took us through the physical realities of the site. She described that each of the chambers was the size of three sheets of A4 paper. That is how difficult the job is going to be. There are 20 of those chambers deep in the ground, surrounded by concrete. When the time comes, the team that is appointed by this institution is going to have to excavate each of those and remove incredibly delicate remains of children, including those of children who were born and of children who died before even coming to term. As Senators have alluded to, this is going to be difficult and it is very possible that not every person who believes he or she has a relative buried in Tuam will be able to get a set of remains. Perhaps some will get no remains at all. That is the nature of the situation.

What I was trying to achieve in the context of this legislation was to ensure that everything that can be done from a scientific point of view will be done. That was why the intervention of Dr. McCullough was so important, particularly in terms of the post-recovery analysis, which is the degree of analysis we undertake before we begin the DNA analysis but after the remains have been removed. I hate using the awful term "commingled remains" but it accurately describes the physical reality. The bones in each of the chambers are mixed up. Each member of the team will have to try to reconstruct individual sets of remains. That is probably the part of this that will take the longest. That work is valuable because it gives the best chance of a DNA identification that will provide a family with a significant set of remains. That is why we are doing this.

Senator Boyhan spoke about what happens at the end and the burials.We are trying to give the families sets of remains they can bury according to the rite they see fit. Some remains will stay unidentified. A process is set out in the Bill in respect of interment for those remains. The advisory committee will be consulted, as will survivors' groups in the area. I am sure there will be different views and that will have to be negotiated at the time. A process is set out here, however, to ensure that every set of remains in this site gets a dignified burial. We have, though, been clear that cremation will not be an option for these remains in case new DNA techniques emerge in future. This aspect of changes in DNA techniques was mentioned, and this provision is a valuable protection.

Senator McGreehan spoke about engagement with the survivors. She described these children, and their family members, as having been robbed of Ireland, and that struck me. It is something I am conscious of, especially in the context where, as the Senator knows, we finally passed the Birth Information and Tracing Bill 2022 yesterday. Next week, a national and international campaign will begin in that context. We must remember the extremely international dimension of this matter. So many of the women who left these institutions went abroad because they felt so little connection with this country. They were abandoned by the country. Likewise, under the legislation, there is a provision for an information campaign when a programme of investigation begins, especially concerning the availability of the DNA. Undoubtedly, in Tuam, many of the people involved have dispersed and it is important that we do that.

I am glad that we were able to provide the clarification regarding the land in Tuam. A point was made about the 10 m distance. As I said before, however, that is on land already regarded as private. That does not apply at the Tuam site. The entire site there is public land and all of it is open for investigation. We have even got a provision that allows us to encroach on some of those gardens at the back of the site. This must be proportionate and compensation will be paid in this regard. When we look at the site, however, the area where the excavation will be happening is right beside a large wall, and, in terms of health and safety, there will be provision for measures to ensure that everyone is safe.

The issue of intervention and excavation versus memorialisation was also referred to. At Tuam, there is no question in this respect. Everyone believes that the course of action set out in this Bill is the right one. Regarding other sites, however, we know there are different views. Some survivors would like to see relatives' remains exhumed and perhaps buried elsewhere, while others have strong views concerning the sanctity of burials, wherever they may be. This is again something we have tried to balance in this legislation. Work is being done on memorialisation. My Department has been engaging with a group led by officials from the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage on the issue of memorialisation and on the protection of sites. Action was taken in the Cork city development plan to protect the Bessborough site. Other local authorities could take similar actions as part of efforts to restore and protect sites.

We are seeking swift progression of this legislation through the House. I say this in a respectful way. Significant changes have been made. This is Committee Stage and we are willing to look at things. It was noted that it is a tight deadline and I accept that. When I was down in Tuam last year, I made a commitment to the relatives that I would do everything I could to ensure that work would take place on the Tuam site this year. If we can get this Bill passed by the end of this session and if, before August, we can get the process started to set up the agency and to seek to appoint a director, then we will be able to work to that timescale. I cannot give an absolute guarantee, but it allows us to work towards that goal. My Department is not waiting for the legislation. All the job specifications and things like that are designed.

I am eager to get this legislation passed quickly so we can undertake that work. As all Senators have said and all Deputies have recognised, the family members in Tuam have waited far too long to get the answers they seek, but, most importantly, to see some dignity restored to those children. Ultimately, this is the essence of what this legislation is about. It is about restoring some dignity to hundreds of children whose dignity was robbed from them. For too long, the State has allowed that situation to continue and we cannot do so anymore. I thank all the Senators for their assistance through the development of this legislation. I again thank all the survivors, relatives and advocates who have been engaged in this process. I commend this Bill to the House.