Pauline O'Reilly (Green Party) | Oireachtas source

The Minister of State is very welcome. It is good to see him here again. What is the number one thing we hear on the door as members of the Green Party? We hear about plastic pollution and about litter in general. Dumping is probably the number one thing anyone hears when going to the doors, particularly in rural areas. Where does that come from? It comes from the fact that we have overconsumption. A circular economy is about ensuring that we are not only consuming, but also putting things back into the system. If there was a 100% perfect circular economy, nothing would be destroyed or thrown away and everything would be reused. I am no under illusions that we will reach that point but this issue is part of what this Bill is trying to address.

The Minister of State is correct that it generally has cross-party support, although suggestions have been made, most of which the Minister of State has taken on board. As the Minister of State mentioned, the Bill has also been subject to pre-legislative scrutiny by the Joint Committee on Environment and Climate Action. What was interesting in that pre-legislative scrutiny and the contributions of the witnesses who came before the committee was how much industry wants the support of regulations. Everyone knows that consumers expect a greener product, but how do you get to that greener product if it will cost you more money to produce than a competitor's product? It is incredibly difficult to ask somebody to do that. It is why social enterprises find it quite difficult to compete with others on the open market. They are doing something to an ethical standard above those of their competitors. When it comes down to it, if you look at the Companies Acts, you will see that every company is supposed to make a profit. That is ultimately their obligation to their shareholders. What we are doing with this Bill is supporting industry. We are putting in place regulations so that there will be a level playing field and everybody will be operating on the same basis. It will also bring in the ethical and environmental standards that all of us know all of the citizens and all of the people who live in Ireland want. We want to see a cleaner, greener island and that is what this Bill will bring about.

It is not long since the Minister of State was in Galway to launch the 2GoCup scheme. This has been really successful and nine cafes are now involved. The scheme means that you do not have to have your own reusable cup to go into a cafe. You can go into one, give a €1 deposit, take one of its cups, use it and then drop it back to another participating cafe. I would love to see that rolled out everywhere. I have seen it in theatres in Galway. You are not using paper or plastic cups and you are not expected to bring your own. It is very realistic about the fact that people do not always have a cup in their handbag. When you bring a cup back, it will be washed and is then ready for another person to use. That is what we need to get to. That is the perfect vision of a circular economy.

There have been quite a lot of conversations at the joint committee and outside of these Houses with regard to compostable cups and the suggestion that they may be better for the environment. The evidence is clear; they simply are not. The reality is that they are just not composted because it is actually quite difficult to do. It puts an onus on businesses to provide the kind of facilities required to compost these cups.

One of the cafes we visited in Galway is purchasing an enormous number of cups at 18 cent a cup. It is purchasing 80,000 at a time and having to find somewhere to store them. It wanted a solution. That solution was a reusable cup that it did not have to rely on their customers to bring in so that it would not have to be concerned that it would lose business if a customer did not bring one and if it provided no alternative.It is now providing an alternative. That just shows the kind of innovation that can happen when a circular economy is put at the core of a nation's values. This Bill would see Ireland become the first country in the world to eliminate this kind of use of disposable coffee cups. That is where we need to get to. It was a big jump politically when we imposed the plastic bag levy but look at what a success that initiative has been. I know from speaking to officials in the Minister of State's Department that there were exemptions for plastic bags. Nobody is suggesting that there may not be instances where disposal cups might need to be used. There may well be such instances and that is what stakeholder engagement is about. It is about engaging with people and asking what are the challenges and how can we address them.

Out of this Bill will come regulations. It is not about setting in stone what will happen from now on but it is about setting down the principle as to where we want to get. We do not believe that disposable cups are the answer.

There is another significant issue I would like to address and which comes up for any politician, that is, dumping. I know that particularly deprived estates near where I live are seeing the results of illegal dumping. People drive into those estates and dump there without any regard for the residents and their standard of living. I did a clean-up in an estate around the corner from where I live. I have done several clean-ups in that particular estate, in fact, because the dumping is non-stop. One could find all the equipment needed to kit-out a kitchen in that one estate of 75 houses. That is because there is a long driveway into the estate and there are no CCTV cameras. Law and order has gone out the window. People need support. They want to do the right thing. They do not want to having to clean up the same patch of ground over and over again. That is why I was delighted to see that CCTV would be allowed under this Bill because one is always told by local authorities that there are general data protection regulation, GDPR, issues. Those issues are finally going to be addressed and I thank the Minister of State for that.

I look forward to full engagement on these issues. I have no doubt on the basis of past experience in the Seanad that there will be full engagement on this Bill. This is only a Second Stage debate. I commend the Minister of State and his staff on the considerable engagement they have undertaken to get the Bill to this stage.