Alice-Mary Higgins (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I appreciate that the Minister has the power to designate but I am concerned that he, or whichever other Minister down the line, may choose not use that power. There is no guarantee for the Oireachtas or the Seanad that the Minister will, in fact, designate religious orders or psychiatric institutions. I am concerned that the tone of the Minister's response seems to suggest a kind of prioritisation with regard to the sources we know are relevant and so forth. There is going to be a large volume to deal with and it may well be the case that there is so much to be engaged with in respect of the secondary information sources named that those other information sources, which are important, fall down the list. In that context, I am conscious that time is pressing in respect of some or many of these records.We cannot afford a staggered or tiered approach. We need to get as much information from as many sources into the public domain as quickly as possible. In terms of the psychiatric institutions, we know that they were used in that regard. The wording I have proposed may be too loose. I accept that the wording of amendment No. 26 is quite wide, but I tried to be quite specific in amendments Nos. 27 and 28. What guarantee do we have that the Minister will designate religious orders or psychiatric institutions as relevant secondary sources? Effectively, by putting the word "relevant" in the amendment, I tried to give a discretion to the Minister, but if he believes it needs to be worded differently so that it gives an explicit direction, then the reference could, for example, state that the Minister shall designate religious orders and psychiatric institutions as relevant on an ongoing basis. He could bring in something like that, because what we need is a guarantee that these parts of the puzzle will not fall out and disappear. With absolute respect in terms of the obligation to let the authority know it has records, that is a very sweeping provision, but which does not really have consequences. We are absolutely aware that people - I will not mention any individual religious order - but religious orders specifically have been very careful in the guarding of their information. In many cases they have been very reluctant to share it. I do not see a rush for them to transfer any records that they may have without good cause or without being in fact required to do so. That is why it is important that there would be a reference to them.

We know, for example, that a significant number of adoptions were not through registered adoption bodies. The whole concern is that so much of it was done in an informal way and by persons not qualified or properly doing so. I am worried that there are going to be holes in terms of the secondary information. We should be using the tools that are in this Bill, which are quite good tools, in terms of clearly requiring secondary information services to engage and making clear what the relationship between the authority and the agency is with those secondary information services. I believe that religious orders that were involved in adoption, whether as registered bodies or not, formally or informally, legally or illegally, should be considered secondary information sources. I also believe that psychiatric institutions, insofar as psychiatric institutions engaged with other parts of that architecture, be it mother and baby homes or similar institutions, should be considered as secondary information sources. For example, it is not everything relating to a psychiatric institution, but it is relevant psychiatric institutions insofar as they hold relevant records. That is appropriate. I accept that amendment No. 26 is worded quite broadly. That was an attempt to capture that informal space, the brokers and those who were not employed by anybody but nonetheless facilitated family separations in local areas around Ireland. Amendments Nos. 27 and 28 are quite specific. I would like to know if the Minister intends to designate religious orders and psychiatric institutions as secondary sources of information.