Lisa Chambers (Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

The Minister and I met recently to discuss my views on the Government's childcare policy. A lot of good things are happening. I have spoken to a number of providers, predominantly across County Mayo where I engaged with all providers in the county. Most of them are saying that it is good to finally see a commitment to core funding for childcare and an acknowledgement that it is an important service. As I said to the Minister previously, many providers that provide nothing more than the ECCE are not entirely happy with what is being proposed. They expected it to go further and feel that it is not quite meeting their costs. Some providers have told me that they are not sure if they want to continue operating in the system so there is probably more work to do with those providers to bring them with us because as Senator Fitzpatrick has just outlined, there is a shortage of places and we cannot afford to lose any providers.

Speaking about the wider policy on childcare provision, I appreciate that the Minister came in at a time when we essentially had private providers providing childcare in the country. We are now trying to in some way turn that into a public system, although it is still a private system. We must ask ourselves whether retrofitting the current private system to give it the look of a public system is the right way to go. It is probably the quickest way to reduce costs for parents and stabilise the sector but I question whether it is the right way for us in the long term. At the end of the day, and I have no difficulty with this, private providers are there to make a profit as well to provide excellent childcare services, which they do. We want to do two things. We want to improve pay and conditions for those working in the sector and we are trying to do this through core funding. I get this and I think they welcome that. Certain providers are saying that because of the way the system is being changed, there is a disincentive for those with a level 7 or 8 to go that bit further and that if you get a level 5 or 6, you might be as well staying at that level because the difference in pay is not that significant because of core funding.

Pay and conditions make up one aspect of it but we also want to reduce costs for parents. The way we are proposing to do that is to provide core funding. We are saying to private providers that we will give them core funding if they adhere to certain rules and guidelines set by us, one of which is that providers do not increase their fees beyond 2021 levels. I get this. We do not want to tell providers they can increase their fees at some point because many providers could quickly increase them this year and try to access funding next year so I get that. The Minister is trying to cut it off. However, what we are trying to do is to essentially control how private companies charge for childcare by dangling a carrot saying that we will give them core funding.It will probably work for some, but again, the question is whether it is the right policy. Is it the right way to go to have an essentially private childcare system that we are trying to make public through the backdoor? If we are being honest, it would take us at least a decade to achieve a fully public system. That is not desirable either because it would take us a long time to get to that point. However, I have concerns that in the long run it will be very difficult for the State to reduce fees if we are trying to do that by offering core funding in return for not increasing fees.

I also want to come at the issue from the childcare providers' perspective. I will cite two examples of providers my area, without naming them. One of them has not increased its fees in seven years and the other has not increased its fees in ten years. They are quite reasonably priced, taking into account the standard cost of childcare in the country, which is extortionate in comparison with other EU countries. These providers are now dealing with rising inflation, like everybody else. They are dealing with increased energy, insurance and running costs. If they want to get core funding they cannot change their fees, which is an unusual position for a private company to find itself in. Normally, if costs go up, they can be passed onto the consumer or client. These providers cannot do that. Some providers are saying they do not know if it is the right thing for them to do to sign up to the system.

I understand what the Minister is trying to do. It is a difficult task. The Minister has been handed a private system and has been told to make it public, effectively, and to curtail fees and increase wages. The Government is doing that by investing in core funding, stopping providers from increasing their fees and, in time, increasing the money going to parents through the national childcare scheme. The two should balance each other out. However, we need to ask whether that is the right policy, long term, or whether we need to see a focus on public childcare that is run by the State.

A good friend of mine is an early years educator. She did her level 7 degree 12 or 13 years ago. She has been working in the sector for a long time. In my view, and her view, the job that childcare providers do is akin to that of primary or secondary school teachers. They are educators and teachers. They are not just minding kids. They are not just childcare providers; they are educators. If that is the case, their salary should reflect that. It currently does not. It is probably because it is a predominantly female profession that until now it has not been recognised for the importance that it has. I know the Minister has changed that. His Department is doing fantastic work in acknowledging that the level of qualifications in the sector is exceptional. That message is coming back to those in the sector. They see that. Early years educators feel that they are now getting the respect they need and that their wages need to reflect that. There are issues in respect of sick pay and holiday pay, for example. Some of those working in the sector are signing on during the summer. They have a level 8 degree and they are signing on. That needs to be addressed. Is there any other profession where workers with a level 8 degree have to sign on, as standard, every summer? Probably not.

Acknowledging that we have to address what is in front of us today, in the long term, I would like to see a move towards a public system where early years educators are paid just like any other teacher. They should be paid their salary, get their pension entitlements and get everything else that other teachers in the country do. I want to see a system where the State has control over the fees that parents pay. As it stands, we have a very delicate balance to strike in trying to curtail fees and basically retrofit a private system to make it look public when, in effect, it will always be a private system.