Thomas Byrne (Meath East, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I am delighted to be here in the Seanad, listening to the debate. As usual with these debates, there have been many facts aired but also some fake news.

Senator Flynn was giving us stark facts about the European Union and how ethnic minorities and the Traveller community have been protected by the Union. They continue to be and I pay tribute to the chief executive of the European Fundamental Rights Agency, Professor Michael O'Flaherty from Galway, who is based in Vienna and who has done so much work on Traveller and Roma protections in the European Union. Following from that we must acknowledge that pretty much all of Irish equality legislation is derived directly from the European Union and European directives. That is very important. On day one we were obliged to introduce equal pay rates for men and women. Before we joined, in Ireland and some other countries, women could get £2 per hour when men were getting £4 per hour for the same job.It was a condition of our EU membership that we would change that. It was Dr. Patrick Hillery, then European Commissioner for Social Affairs, who drove that on within the European Union. It is not just that the European Union drove us on a path, Irish people within the European Union did that. As a Fianna Fáil Minister of State, I am very proud of my party's role in that path. Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael were the only two parties that supported European Union membership. In fact, we are the only two parties that continually supported European Union membership at every referendum that has taken place. Consider all of the scaremongering that has happened at every referendum: there would be a European army and we would all be conscripted, and that the Irish language would be dead. Is é a mhalairt atá i gceist anois leis an nGaeilge. Tá an Ghaeilge ag dul ó neart go neart san Eoraip.

While I have good respect for Senator Ó Donnghaile, this whole thing about the militarisation of the EU is wearing a bit thin, quite frankly, because they have been promising this for years and years and it is untrue. We only have to give the two most famous examples. The European Union was a peace project preventing war between France and Germany, and - to a party that is very strong in Northern Ireland and I congratulate it on that - absolutely essential to the Northern Ireland peace process is that every move the European Commission makes on the protocol in Northern Ireland has peace at the top of the agenda. I know this because I am dealing with them. So, let us move away from this militarisation thing.

The truth is that other EU countries spend more on their militaries than other parts of the world. Why is that? It is actually because every EU member state is doing it themselves. It is precisely because the EU is not doing it. I am not advocating for the EU to do it. Ireland is not part of a common defence and we will not be, unless we had a referendum. That is the truth of it. It is because there are no efficiencies. If we all got our military vehicles from one supplier we would be spending more money on schools and hospitals than on the military, but of course one cannot explain that. We must move away from that discussion. It is wearing thin. It is wearing thin with the Irish public also. The public do not believe it. Irish people really value their European identity, so when the Opposition and some other parties say "Oh we support Europe, but...", there is always a "but". Of course not everything is perfect but the benefits that European Union membership has given to Ireland over many years have been absolutely tremendous. Really, where would we be without it and where would Europe be without the European Union?

In this Seanad centenary year I pay tribute to Senators who have served us very well in Europe. I am thinking in particular of Senator David Norris who, while it was not through the European Union but through the Council of Europe, went to the European Court of Human Rights to change laws, which ultimately made us as a country change for the better, and ultimately making grá the law here in the State. This flowed on directly from Senator Norris's actions of decades ago. The President of Ireland talks about the EU being a street and I would say that it is a two-way street. The European Court of Human Rights, to which Ireland is associated through the European Union and through our Constitution, gave Senator Norris his case and Ireland had to change the law. Then, decades later, Ireland was the first country in the world to legalise marriage equality by referendum, and others followed us. While the EU pushes us along in a certain direction, we in Ireland have done that too.

I pay tribute also to some of our Senators who served in the EU. I refer in particular to the late Senator Michael Yeats, the son of W.B. Yeats. Senator Yeats was on Ireland's first parliamentary delegation to the European Union. I must also thank Senator Alice-Mary Higgins for her work with the Conference on the Future of Europe. I attended a meeting with colleagues on that and they were asking me who is this Senator Higgins. They said the Senator works very hard and is doing incredible work checking that every t is crossed and every i is dotted. This is a tribute to her work and the work that Senators typically do when they go to these institutions abroad and represent Ireland so well.

On membership applications, we do support Ukraine and Moldova very strongly in their aspirations to join the European Union. Ukraine has made huge progress. I had a video call this morning with my Moldovan counterpart and with the Moldovan ambassador at the office. During the meeting we gave very strong support. Moldova is a very poor country but they really need our support. They are very determined to go on the European Union path. We must help them go along with that and give their people hope. I pay tribute to all of the Moldovan people living in Ireland. They are a credit to their country and they have done tremendously well here. They are very welcome here. Georgia is certainly on that list but they must look very closely at issues around human rights and the rule of law there. I strongly urge our Georgian friends to continue on that path and I would ask Senators when they are dealing with Georgian representatives that they would remind them of the importance of what is required for candidature for membership of the European Union.

While the Conference on the Future of Europe has officially concluded, it is really only getting going now because the debate is starting. We must consider carefully all of the recommendations there. I do like to hear some, not all, from the Opposition here and in the other House welcoming the conclusions of the Conference on the Future of Europe. They obviously have not read them. Nobody could welcome them in general as there is always something one could pick out that one might not like. There will be issues for us in defence and unanimity. We should read and carefully consider them before we make any statements, which is exactly what the Government is going to do. It is very important that we do so in a constructive way. We very much want to be at the heart of Europe. The veto unanimity is very important for us, but I do not know if we will ever use it.

People say to us that we need an independent foreign policy, which I hear from Sinn Féin here and in the other House. What difference do they want in foreign policy that we do not have today? We go along with the foreign policy of the European Union. Yes, we have a right of veto on that and we can stop it, but what is it they want us to change from what we are doing at the moment? We are pursuing peace. We are pursuing reconciliation. We are being robust in defending human rights.

Reference was made to Israel and Palestine. We in Ireland have a very robust policy on that, which is not shared by all member states. The policy has not been forced upon us by Europe and we make our own decisions. When Members say we need an independent foreign policy, what policies do they want instead of the ones we have today? Our foreign policy today is neutrality and active engagement at the Security Council, at the UN, and at the Council of Europe. Our policy is about peace and helping to develop countries. What do they want to change? It is alright to throw out this lingo but what does it mean in practice? The European Union has been so important to us and is very important for young people. We must be very wary of those who come in and say, "We support it but...". Be wary of that. It does not mean we do not have critical engagement, but sometimes I believe it is code for "We really do not support it".