Rónán Mullen (Independent) | Oireachtas source

The idea such a prohibition on free concerned exchange between good people shows, as I have said, the recklessness and intolerance underlying this legislation. I am not sure it was deliberately intended but there is such a broad sweep underlying this legislation that there is not any interest in considering whether there could be unforeseen or unintended consequences, such is the visceral nature of the proposal here. Let us be clear, counselling of a kind that is intended to assist a person and which is consensual between people should not directly, indirectly, or accidentally be criminalised in the way that applies in this legislation. It is simply irresponsible to contemplate letting this legislation pass without addressing at least that issue.

On the neuralgic issue of religion in our society, I speak as somebody who has never taken part in any prayerful or other kind of vigil protesting abortion services. It would actually be very hard to do it in the way people think it is being done and the way it is done in other countries where there are abortion clinics and it is known people going into a building are doing so for a very specific purpose. Then there are people who may demonstrate outside in different ways. Some of them might demonstrate in objectionable ways. It has been known to happen, sadly. There are very irresponsible people out there who, from time to time, communicate in a very irrational or unpleasant way. That has happened in other countries. What also happens is there are people who offer, in a respectful way, counselling or support to people who might be conflicted, might want to change their mind or who might be open to changing their mind. There are people who might want to bring information into the public domain and yes, there are people who, in their own personal way, feel prayer might influence the situation for the better.

Senator Boylan says the test is not whether those people intend kindness or not. She says it is how the person passing by feels that determines whether one should have a right to communicate, however respectfully. Let us think about how elastic that concept is. Is there any other situation where people might be availing of a legal service in a country, where if one were to in any way signal dissent or disagreement with it, no matter how carefully or respectfully, the fact somebody else might say: "I feel intimidated by you" can immediately put one at risk of either being moved on by gardaí or prosecuted if one does not. That is why I say this Bill is so antidemocratic and why it flirts with fascism. I am not making that phrase up for dramatic effect. This is a remarkable piece of legislation in how far it seeks to go to prevent other people from expressing respectful dissent. No responsible democrat should have anything to do with it.

I have not even talked yet about what Bunreacht na hÉireann says about the free expression and practice of religion. The Bill's proponents know this would be unconstitutional yet they persist in proposing this legislation as a form of virtue-signalling that is frankly not virtuous because there is respect in our Constitution and a presumption in favour of prayerfulness. Though I do not have any plans to ever take part in such vigils myself, I defend good people who do and who will. I made the point in this House on the last occasion that I am aware of at least one case where the uncle of one of our Government Ministers has taken part in these and I am sure that person is perfectly decent and not out to harass, intimidate or make anybody feel bad. The other side always fails to remember that for those of us opposed to abortion, it is not because we want to limit anybody else's life but because we want to enhance respect for life in the country because we regard abortion as the tragic loss of an innocent human life that is there from the first moment with the 46 chromosomes and all that stuff we learned in our biology classes at school. That concept of human dignity is what motivates those who oppose abortion. It is not hatred or dislike for anybody else. I sympathise with Senator Boylan when she talks about unpleasant stuff being put up online but she does not have a monopoly on victimhood in that regard.