Rónán Mullen (Independent) | Oireachtas source

A brief reference was made to filibustering earlier. I want to make sure everybody knows that from my own point of view and, I suspect, from Senator Keogan's point of view, there is no desire or any point in trying to filibuster this Bill. This Bill will pass today because people do not really care about the content. They just want to make the point.I am only interested in addressing anything I hear that is false or perverse in the arguments being made for the Bill and in explaining the reasons for the amendments Senator Keogan has proposed and I have supported. I wanted to make that point.

My second point is I have noticed that despite the fact the amendment proposes the deletion of the phrase "prayer or counselling" from the relevant section of the Bill, all the contributions I have heard so far have to do with prayer. It seems to me it is because there is an element of paranoia and neuralgia around religion in our society, in some quarters, and how it intersects with these difficult social issues. I say that as someone who has spent my Seanad career addressing some very controversial issues. I have always sought to make arguments that do not depend on any other person's faith, or indeed my own. I make arguments based on human rights and human dignity and ones intended to appeal to people of good faith or of all faiths or none. Despite this I always find, when I hear people discussing these debates, especially from the point of view that proposes and supports abortion rights, there is always an attempt to demonise religious people. That proceeds from a recognition some of the controversies touching on the church in Ireland have meant there is a lot of neuralgia around religion and there can be a weaponisation of hostility towards religion but it is the unborn who have been the victims of that in recent years.

Let us make arguments based on things we all agree on, or are supposed to agree on, that is, democracy, human rights, the rule of law, respect for free speech, respect for free expression and dissent and the minimum curtailment of free expression done only in order to safeguard essential rights and safety of people. That is what most democrats agree on. That is why I have today said this legislation flirts with fascism because it shows a complete disregard for the necessary public good of being able to express oneself in a free way. I do not mean in an abusive way, a harassing way a way that should attract censure and prosecution, but the necessary expression of dissent is vital in a democracy.

Let us therefore talk about counselling, which the other contributors have not mentioned so far but which is essential to the first of these amendments. I made the point even an innocent conversation in a coffee shop, if overheard, could be criminalised. Senator Seery Kearney sought to set that aside by asking who would ever report such a thing. My answer is exactly the kind of people who would propose such draconian legislation in the first place. They would be only too happy to make such a report and seek to get the Garda involved, as this legislation does, and seek to get one fined up to €3,000. The degree of intolerance is already on display in this legislation. Say one is a mother accompanying one's teenage daughter and one finds oneself sitting in a coffee shop. If the mother is upset at what her teenage daughter wants and were to seek to provide information or indeed counselling to her daughter who is considering having an abortion, that mother could unintentionally fall foul of this law and leave herself open to criminal penalty. That is a fact and nobody here has denied that today. They have simply tried to suggest nobody would attempt to report it or prosecute it but the idea such a thing-----