Anne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I was. That was the most important point.

There is much to be learned from a smooth transfer and having a good working relationship with Ministers in both Departments. There is much to be learned about how both Departments had to work in a collaborative way and a relationship developed. Perhaps in the past we would have always worked in silos but at all my meetings Department of Health officials must appear and officials from the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth must appear. They are watching me all the time for fear I land the other Department in trouble.

I thank Sinn Féin for its support of the Bill. I agree that it is all about services and removing barriers. I certainly will not deny that and it must be about the removal of barriers. It is about moving from the medical model to the social model.

Senator Mary Seery Kearney is on both the sectoral committees and understands very clearly the complexities involved in this process. We acknowledge the Bill is technical and complex but it is the undercurrent of work that must be understood. It goes across so many sections and it feeds so far into the community. It is a varied area but, at the same time, the budget is divided very clearly. Perhaps in the past we had a particular focus of delivery but the members of both committees, along with me as Minister of State, are trying to move the dial and change the cultural approach so we can look at a social rather than completely medical model. We are also trying to be very open-minded in the transfer, and this is about equality and rights to housing, work, education and inclusion. There is a right to the optimal protocol in the overall game. That is what we are looking to achieve.

In the context of this Bill much good work has gone on in both committees. Only earlier this morning I spoke about the standard operating procedure and the children's committee yesterday had a very robust discussion of that. I thank the Senator for that. We got many answers and now there is a conversation on all sides. Disability is no longer tokenistic and just about being well-intentioned. Disability is about action and anybody who enters into its arena is expected to do something, including me, elected Members in the Oireachtas, the paid members of the HSE and the Departments. It is at the front and centre of the Department.

When we move to the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth, it will be the largest budget there. It is no longer the Cinderella of a Department but front and centre. It is where we want disability issues to be. When we achieve our goals within the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth, we will set our sights on other Departments to get disability matters very clearly front and centre within transport and employment. The Senators might let the Tánaiste know I am coming for the Department dealing with enterprise and entrepreneurship. This must go right across society. People have rights to inclusion. If we understand the spirit of such action, we must back it up by action and funding.

The Senator spoke about disability capacity funding. I have only just left my office and have been going down through the area with a fine toothcomb. There is no denying we need more money. If we are serious about it we must change the dial on what we know and our priorities. Personal assistance is huge if we are to support independent living and access to the workspace. That has been a key message coming through all committees. I thank the Senator for her work. Vacancies are also a major issue.

Senator Buttimer is what I would like to be when I sit on the benches. He challenges the system all the time, which I welcome. I know I have his full support in this. He is right. When we speak about putting systems in place, we cannot leave out one part or it all falls down. I have had robust conversations in the Department of Health about how the Bill will move. Some would have liked me to leave the delivery of services for therapeutic services within the Department of Health, for example. That could not be done, however, as there must be a clear pathway.

Senator Buttimer is also right that I should follow the money. The HSE knows I follow the money and it has seen me do it for the past two years. We are in a space where it will be extracted and there will be separate accounts and reporting to two Ministers. It will become very clear and transparent as to where the money is spent, and we can then look to performance-related delivery and measurable outcomes. We must get down to key performance indicators and if we give X, we should know what we got for that. That may be therapy delivery or respite beds but we must know. How else can I ask the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform for funding? I am with the Senator and we need a multisectoral approach.

Sometimes we outsource too much within the HSE rather than holding on and having confidence in the ability to do the job, deliver and see it done. For all the critical issues I have seen in community healthcare organisation, CHO, 1 over the past number of months, the HSE has delivered the vast majority of healthcare needs very well. That is leaving aside the Brandon report and everything else, which was a different assessment at the time. The HSE cannot stand back.

I thank Senator Mullen for his contribution. I wrote down the reference to laser-like focus. He is right in his belief of what the Department should have in that laser-like focus. I agree on that.I see a laser-like focus on equality and rights and on the likes of the minority groupings, the rights of persons with disabilities and the children's referendum. That is why we needed to put a laser-like focus on it. We all have health issues. People with disabilities have health issues; I have health issues. However, persons with disabilities also have the right of equality and the right to participate. That is what that Department will do on it.

Senator Mullen used some very powerful language. We absolutely do not have a scatter-gun approach. Sometimes Opposition Members describe Government as being well-intentioned and moving the deck chairs. That is not what this Government is about when it comes to disability. I would like to think it is very focused on delivering and determined to deliver for persons with disabilities. That is why we focused on introducing this legislation, doing the job I was asked to do, seeking the funding to deliver, and now following the accountability and the delivery of it. That leads me back to the last comment the Senator made. Yes, I believe in good governance. I believe in governance for everybody and accountability for all.

The Senator asked about section 38 and section 39 bodies. If the issue arises, the Bill gives the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth the authority to request information from the HSE on the activities of section 38 and section 39 bodies in respect of the area transferring. These are the same powers as the Minister for Health currently holds. If we need to amend the governance of the HSE and section 38 and section 39 bodies, we will do that. The Bill is about transferring responsibility. To try to introduce complex changes beyond that aspect of the legislation would certainly cause further delay. I ask the Senator not to table the amendment. I agree about proper governance and oversight. As I have been instructed by my official, if that needs to happen, we will certainly be doing it. I have said very clearly that I am following the money. I want accountability.