Pauline O'Reilly (Green Party) | Oireachtas source

The Minister is welcome again. Many of us in the House were on the Joint Committee on Environment and Climate Action that has put this report together. It is appropriate, therefore, that we are discussing it in the Seanad.

We are in a climate emergency. I know we say that a lot but time is upon us. Particularly in relation to these carbon budgets, there is a statutory time laid down by which they have to come before the Oireachtas. We had that in mind. It is important to go back to the climate Act and look at the fact we strengthened the council that came up with the recommendations put before us. On the basis of its evidence before us and the extremely ambitious targets in the carbon budget, the committee decided to agree with its proposals.We put forward several other recommendations that I hope the Minister will consider, particularly in respect of peatland. I know Senator Higgins put forward a recommendation relating to peatlands that I was certainly happy to support because it is something we could start doing immediately. I know the Government has been doing that immediately. It is also a crucial part of a just transition.

My core point is that these budgets are very ambitious. That is overwhelmingly what all of those who came before the committee stated. To be fair, three members of the committee did not agree with the proposal and believed it should go further. However, if we are looking at a just transition and are faced with incredibly onerous and ambitious targets, those who are seeking something that goes beyond that have to point to how we can go beyond that and still bring everyone with us and ensure we are meeting our targets. I am not sure that is possible based on the evidence that was presented to the committee.

The members of the Climate Change Advisory Council who spoke to the committee stated there were certain issues in respect of modelling, particularly when it comes to social justice. The reason for that is that we just have not been doing these budgets. That is something in which we need to invest in the coming years. There could be an ongoing process with the Department to bring scientists and departmental officials together on an ongoing basis to consider how we can model each individual decision that comes before us, because that is ultimately what these carbon budgets are going to come down to. We have a detailed climate action plan and in the annexe of actions there are hundreds of pages on what we have to do in each quarter of each year. In order to make those decisions, we need to do more than set carbon budgets. We probably need to do more than come back on it every year; we actually need to look at the individual actions.

That is substantially what I wish to add to the discussion. The committee was presented with good evidence, which the Minister has before him in the report. The difference of opinion substantially comes down to the issue of whether it is ambitious enough. I, and the majority of committee members, believed it was and that there was no convincing evidence that we could effectively go beyond that. I point to the remarks of Oisín Coghlan of Friends of the Earth Ireland. I will not quote his exact comments but all of the witnesses who contributed on the day he appeared before the committee were specifically asked if they agreed with the carbon budget and they confirmed they did. I know witnesses who appeared on another day went beyond that but what those people who have been dealing with politics for a long time feel quite strongly, as do I as somewhat of a newbie, is that we have to be realistic and ambitious and ensure we are doing something that is socially just but will, at the end of the day, get the job done.