Helen McEntee (Meath East, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Cathaoirleach for the chance to speak on this Bill. Obviously, I will not be opposing it on the next Stage. While there is undoubtedly work to be done on how best to implement the changes we are discussing here, Senator Chambers and I have a shared desire to see the law in this area strengthened, as do all of us in this House. We must do so as soon as possible so that it can be a support and do what it is intended to do, which is to bring about justice for the many women who are impacted by this and for men, who are impacted by it to a lesser extent. I thank Senator Chambers for the work she has put into this Bill and this issue. I know she has done a great amount of work, not just in engaging with Eve and Una, but across the board to make sure that every issue is covered. In my own work since entering the Department of Justice, I have tried to prioritise domestic, sexual and gender-based violence and not only bring about new policies and introduce new laws, but also strengthen those we have. As was mentioned in a discussion we had here just previous to this debate, it is not always about creating new laws. It is often about strengthening the laws we have.

I am profoundly aware of the impact stalking can have on individuals. It is an extremely serious and intrusive crime. I am well aware of the psychological impact it can have because I have seen the impact it had on a very close friend of mine. I know what it can do to a person. It is devastating to see. I have been particularly struck by those who have spoken out, including those who have spoken out in this Chamber and in the Dáil. I particularly thank Eve McDowell and Una Ring, the co-founders of Stalking Ireland, who showed bravery both in recounting what happened to them and their personal stories and in pursuing their tireless campaign to bring this issue to the fore. With regard to the number of people they have supported, I do not believe they themselves expected so many people to come forward and contact them directly but people have contacted them and that is because of their work, what they have gone through and the fact that they have put themselves forward, which is never an easy thing to do. It is only by listening to the lived experience victims and survivors of stalking and other offences of that kind and taking on board their experiences, good, bad or indifferent, that we can strengthen and improve our laws and make sure that the best system and structures are in place to support them.

I am particularly conscious of the evidence that shows that, when a specific offence of stalking has been introduced in other areas, it has led to greater awareness of that crime. We also see an increase in the number of victims coming forward and the number of those who are guilty of these crimes being prosecuted. That is ultimately what we want. We want to create a system that allows victims to feel comfortable in coming forward and in which they know they will be supported and protected the entire way through and that those they come into contact with will be able to support them in that way. Senator Chambers mentioned the need for training. That is a key element of Supporting a Victim's Journey, my plan in the Department to improve the criminal justice system. This will include training for members of An Garda Síochána separate from the training for those in the divisional protective service units that have been established throughout all of the new divisions. It also includes the legal professions, that is, solicitors and barristers, and the Judiciary, where we only recently saw moot courts and training on the issue of sexual harassment, rape and sexual assault taking place. It is extremely important that, when people come forward, they know that the law is on their side and that they will be supported.The existing section 10 harassment offence covers stalking behaviour. We are speaking about strengthening the law. I encourage victims of stalking to report it. It has been and is prosecuted. Offences carry potential sentences of up to ten years. We recently increased this through the introduction of Coco's law whereby it moved from seven to ten years. Perpetrators should not believe they can act with impunity and I want to make this clear. This is not to say the law cannot be improved. It can be and I am absolutely determined, as Senator Chambers and many others are, that it will be.

As I said, there is further work to be done on how we do it. I look forward to working with Senator Chambers, Eve, Una and others. There is an overlap between the existing harassment offence in section 10 and the proposed offence in the Bill. This creates a concern that perhaps there is a lack of clarity and certainty as to how a prosecution should be or could be conducted. Some conduct will potentially fall under one section or another but not necessarily both. It potentially creates a risk. This is something we need to work through and make sure that, however, we put forward proposals the law is clear. Whether it is An Garda Síochána, the DPP or the courts we must make it as clear as we can.

There are other areas separate from the Bill itself, within which is the experience of Una and Eve, in particular. They are very clear they want their experience to be acknowledged in strengthening the law. There are other changes and recommendations I would like to make with regard to changes. We must make it clear that stalking occurs whether or not a victim is aware he or she is being stalked. This is not an academic point. We should not wait until serious harm occurs or somebody finds out when it is too late. It is very important that even though a person might not know he or she is being stalked it is an offence. It must also be made clear that impersonating a victim and communicating with a third party is illegal. We need to make sure our laws cover all forms of communication. We know things change and evolve and inevitably there will be more ways to engage with each other. The Bill also looks at introducing a provision whereby victims in very serious cases can apply to the court to prevent alleged perpetrators communicating with them in advance of a trial. There are many ways in which we can strengthen the law.

I thank Senator Chambers for her work in bringing forward the Bill. I look forward to working with her as it passes through the House and as we find a way to make sure that the existing law and the new offence of stalking are as clear and strong as possible so that victims will know when coming forward that perpetrators will be prosecuted. At the end of the day this is about supporting victims and making sure they are very clear that when they come forward they will be supported, listened to and that those responsible will be brought to justice.