Pauline O'Reilly (Green Party) | Oireachtas source

The Minister of State is very welcome. I thank Senator Malcolm Byrne and all the other Fianna Fáil Senators. We have discussed this issue before, including when Senator Wall introduced legislation.

The important thing to remember about dumping is that there is no witness who can make a statement and bring it to the Garda. The ultimate victim is the environment, which is voiceless. It means extraordinary measures are required to tackle this problem. I am talking about all types of wildlife crimes, which the Minister of State, Deputy Noonan, is also addressing. This is a critical piece.

I am aware that there have been criticisms of the time it takes for legislation to come through. The circular economy heads of Bill did come to us at the Joint Committee on Environment and Climate Action, and that is the correct process. We have all agreed with that process now. It means that there is an extra part to it. It is appropriate. It means we can bring forward witnesses and hear what is actually happening on the ground. We have done the work and therefore the legislation has to go back to the Minister’s Department to make progress on it. When I saw the heads of Bill and saw this element appearing under them, it really jumped out at me. Many of us here have been councillors and know what happens on the ground in councils, how councils themselves are hamstrung and the difficulties our constituents are having.

Around the corner from me, there is an estate with a quite long entry road to which people drive to dump, pretty much literally on people’s doorsteps. I went there with the residents and did a clean-up. I found an entire kitchen there. There was a table, microwave and washing machine, all in a tiny estate with fewer than 100 houses. This then generates complete disrespect for such an area. The question arises as to why one should continue to do clean-ups at a location when getting nowhere and if someone is going to dump there the next weekend. It is soul-destroying for the people affected. They have been calling for CCTV for years. The same old issue of GDPR comes up and really does tie the hands of the council. I believe it is also used as a bit of an excuse in some respects to ignore the issue, the effect being a desire to wait until we have legislation or have managed to get around the GDPR issues.

In another area of Knocknacarra, I was doing another litter pick. I went up to the top of a little grass verge and noted that the entire field in the middle of a residential area was literally covered with bags of rubbish. This was because it was a quiet place into which people could drive. It only had workers there during the day. It was cleaned up by reporting the matter to the EPA and by the serving of a notice on the owner. However, there is not always a person to go back to because the land could be council owned or under the charge of the local estate. It is not an easy matter. We do require CCTV. I fully understand people’s concerns about surveillance but ultimately we are trying to protect the environment. There has to be justification, and that justification has to involve not only what local people want but consideration as to whether the environment is being damaged and biodiversity affected. I believe there is such an impact. A lot of this comes back to the concept of the consumer society, and that is why placing this issue into the context of a circular economy is appropriate. If we had less waste in the first place, there would not be as much stuff to dump.

The last point I wish to make is on what people have been doing while waiting for this issue to be resolved. I know they have been doing it in Wicklow. I am referring to lookout projects whereby people adopt a mile on which to keep an eye. It happens particularly in rural areas. Fundamentally, that is also a little like surveillance. People are still doing it. They are keeping an eye out to see who is coming past. It is not monitored in any way. If one puts in CCTV, it ultimately goes back to being somebody’s responsibility. That is the best way to handle it.

I thank Senator Byrne again for raising the issue and look forward to hearing what the Minister of State has to say.