Jerry Buttimer (Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Minister back to the House. I think we have all missed a trick in this debate and we should all be stepping back. We should actually have proposed collectively that there should be pre-legislative scrutiny of this Bill. That is what we should have done if we are to be honest about it. The debate so far is like the debate we had in this House a couple of years ago when we unanimously supported the motion calling for pay and conditions to be improved.

There is a reason I say that we missed a trick. Senator Moynihan has made the most pertinent point so far in this debate today. I commend the decision by the freedom of information officer regarding the staff of Leinster House, which stated, "On consideration, I have deemed the information to be personal information and have decided that, on balance, the rights to privacy of the individuals outweigh the public interest in this case." That is absolutely correct, 100%. The reason we should have had pre-legislative scrutiny rests on a number of things. One is the debate we have been having yesterday and today and which the Minister had in the Dáil last week. To be fair to him and give him his credit, yesterday he was upfront and open and his remarks were very positive. He is only one cog in the wheel, however.

On 5 November, however, the HR department here issued an email to all of us members of the parliamentary community. I will make the point that we are a parliamentary community, irrespective of our political differences. We are here to serve and to work and today during the Order of Business, I commended Cáit Hayes, who started working in Leinster House 35 years ago and today is retiring. That is a lifetime of service. The men and women who work with us here in this House are working with us. It is a community. I say to Senators Gavan and Craughwell that there will be contagion no matter what happens but the contagion is up to us to challenge. Whether we support this recommendation today does not in any way dilute the support that the Government Members have for what is before us in this Bill in terms of our secretarial assistants.If Members of Government parties vote against the recommendations, I would not like it to come out of today's debate that we are less than wholesome in our support. It is wrong to say we are not. It is unfair, because many of us have been proactive on this matter and we all share the common goal.

The Houses of the Oireachtas Commission recently approved what it calls an engagement plan for political staff. One of the laudable objectives is to help improve job satisfaction and promote well-being among staff. Pay and conditions must be contained in the well-being element, as well as it being family-friendly. I am old school in that I am here on Tuesday and Wednesday and I do not have any difficulty staying late, personally, but I fully understand how discommoding the unsocial hours can be for staff and Members. We must look at the context of the workplace support programme.

In his speech in the Dáil and here yesterday the Minister touched on a number of points we all support. I hope that arising from our debate today we will come back and look at certain issues. I do not agree with the recommendation for two reasons. First, we can engage with the Minister at any time. Senator Craughwell had a Commencement matter before the House. We can ask the Minister to come to the House to debate an issue. We can table motions and the Minister will come to the House.

I do not agree with what has been proposed in recommendation No. 2, which seeks to have a report laid before the Committee on Parliamentary Procedures and Oversight. It is an exclusive committee that excludes Members of the House from participation. Why not lay the report before the Houses of the Oireachtas rather than a parliamentary committee that has limited membership? The overarching aim we have in the context of our secretarial assistants is to ensure we have better support and that the process starts again on 28 January. It is important there is a positive outcome.

I will not go back over old ground but, as has been stated, the role has changed and the title of the job is no longer relevant. You were here in 1989, a Leas-Chathaoirligh, and you have seen the change in the supports to us as Members. I make the point repeatedly that it costs money to fund Parliament. Senator Higgins referred to her role in committees and the role we play in legislation. Look at the value we get from the Library and Research Service in terms of the policy papers and research papers and their availability to us. Senator Moynihan alluded to something that happened this week. A freedom of information request was made about overtime for members of staff as opposed to the value they bring to Parliament.

We have completely missed a trick. Our role has changed. As Senator Craughwell said, it is no longer part time. Even in the old days, a secretary worked for more than one Member. My secretary, Ruth Lawlor, worked for three or four Members. There was one telephone and the secretaries had to queue up to get a typewriter. We evolved and changed, but not everything has evolved and changed. What I say is not sexy or popular and it will be ridiculed by the Twitterati and the media, but as parliamentarians, we should have the staff to do the work that is required in terms of research, speech writing and probing.

Senator Higgins is 100% correct. The quality of the people working in Parliament is extraordinary. That applies to everybody in the Houses of the Oireachtas. When you start at the front gate and you go to the back gate and you take all people in between in the parliamentary community, the level of quality is extraordinary. I thank the men and women who work in the Oireachtas for the service they give and the work they provide. At another time, we need a debate about the role and the supports for Members of the Oireachtas. Our job and role have changed completely. If we go back to what we said yesterday and look at the people who work with us, they deal with people in their most vulnerable state, who are predominantly anxious and want the State to help them in their hour of need.

Today, in passing this Bill, we will not change the world, but we are sending a signal to the Government and the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform that we want to see change. We have one member of the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission with us this afternoon, who is a very good member, Senator Kyne. He has been very strong on many issues relating to supports for the parliamentary community. We must have a real debate about the funding of democracy in Parliament and that we are not afraid and would not be looking over our shoulder at what people might think or say.

I thank the Minister, Deputy McGrath, for being here again today, for his work yesterday and for his positivity both in the Dáil and in this House. It is refreshing and good we have a Minister who is going to be part of the vanguard for change. I accept he may perhaps not be able to, but I believe he is sincere.

There is a job for all of us arising from this debate. Perhaps you, a Leas-Chathaoirligh, and the Cathaoirleach could look at that as part of the sectoral debates in the Houses of the Oireachtas or perhaps even the Seanad Public Consultation Committee could take a look at how we could develop and evolve different schemes around supports in Parliament.