Victor Boyhan (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Minister. As I always acknowledge, it is important and it makes a difference when the front-line Minister comes to the Seanad. Last week, the Minister got traction when he spoke in the Dáil with regard to secretarial allowances. People felt that he was positively disposed to resolving that issue. I welcome his comments and the fact that he raised that issue before we even raised it with him.

Conscious that this meeting was going to happen and we were going to discuss this Bill, however, Senators tabled some valid amendments. While I support the legislation, I also support the amendments. We could never anticipate what the Minister might have said here today. We will have another opportunity. We are only considering Second Stage of this Bill today. I will not, therefore, dwell too much on that only to say that I have spoken to a substantial number of secretarial assistants from all parties across the House and they seem to share the same view and concern. Their pay is nothing short of a disgrace, particularly and more importantly when one puts it up against the pensions. Politicians on all sides of both Houses have been criticised time and time again by the media and other people outside with regard to our pensions. I took the time today to look at the pension schemes and financial incentives and schemes for the elected Members of this House and then I looked at the five, ten and 15-year expectation for secretarial assistants. It is nothing short of a disgrace. It will be put in the public domain in the next day or two and rightly so. It should be scrutinised.

We cannot stand in this House and talk about certain Members of this House not getting the proper pay. We must see it in the context of our own pay and our own generous allowances and expenses. Let us call a spade a spade. We are here doing a job but we are part of a team doing a job in these Houses. The Minister knows it and so do I. I could not survive without my secretarial assistant. They are stretched and are working exceptionally hard. Many of them must travel. They put their hand in their pocket to pay for their meals, lunches and travel. They pay for their accommodation if they have to come from outside Dublin. Put all that into the mix and they are getting a bad and a raw deal and we cannot stand over it. I am happy to elaborate in more detail with the Minister outside this Chamber and also when we discuss the issue at the next Stage.

I have no problem in essence with regard to the legislation and the Bill before us. It costs €462 million to run the Houses. That is the reality of it; that is what it costs. I first wish to acknowledge the enormous work of the Clerk of the Dáil, Mr. Peter Finnegan, the Clerk of the Seanad, Mr. Martin Groves, all the other people who work on the commission and their staff and teams who keep the show on the road and keep the cogs in Leinster House oiled. They have worked through exceptionally difficult times with regard to Covid-19 in keeping the place open. That has not been easy. It has been challenging for them as it has been for us. That is really important. We could not have survived without their dedication and commitment that went way beyond the call of duty and way beyond the reasonable hours that anybody could be expected to run.

I sit on the Oireachtas audit committee so I tend to know a lot of the financial workings of the service. That is a really great insight and one sees things that, perhaps, other people never see. We audit all aspects and facets of this organisation and it is an eye-opener. I can tell you one thing as a member of the audit committee. The value for money is paramount and excellent and we are running an exceptionally good and professional show on a very well-managed and well-audited system. In terms of governance of all of that, it is exceptionally good. That is something I want to share with the House.

I support everything the Minister is doing but I am concerned about the pay, conditions and pensions. The Minister might wish to look at the figures in respect of pensions. It is just unbelievable and it is not good enough. Some Independents, members of Sinn Féin, the Labour Party and other groups have tabled and signed amendments. There is still room for more signatures. It is all very well talking here in solidarity but Members in this House can put their signatures on those amendments overnight and add to them. Let us stand in solidarity across this House and show no divide. Let us stand with our staff and support them on top of what the Minister is doing. I am not taking away from anything he is doing. I am confident from everything I have learned about him and everything that people have said that he will work on it. Let us also stand as Oireachtas Members, however, in solidarity with the staff here and those who are at their desks now working for the Minister and me, and for this country.