Gerry Horkan (Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

It worked well for both of us. All of a sudden the chair and the vice-chair were in Leinster House. I remember at the time that a councillor in our area in my own party who was on maternity leave from work but was not on maternity leave as a councillor. While she was willing to come in she felt that her workplace would see her in the council chamber and that she was well enough to go there but not well enough for, or on leave from, her job. She was finding it difficult. She was expected to turn up at one of her positions while she had perfectly accurate and appropriate leave from her job.

I welcome that this motion also calls for paternity leave. In the 21st century very few people would imagine it would not happen anyway. If a councillor's wife or partner has a baby that councillor would need time to help with the bringing up of the baby and to help out a wife or partner in the circumstances they find themselves with the great new arrival. I was the chairman of the Fianna Fáil councillors' forum for a number of years when this did come up as an issue.

There are other issues that also need to be considered, which is not to take away from this debate. The aspect of the "officeholder" can be very confusing. The person does pay PRSI but gets absolutely nothing for it. This has been slightly changed for councillors, but it still applies to other officeholders, including Members of this House. Members pay the pay related social insurance, which is actually on all of the income, and then get absolutely nothing for it. That is daft. It is a supertax on officeholders. It came from the time when PRSI was at 0% so we would have paid nothing and got nothing. Now we pay something and get nothing.

Why are councillors the only people in the entire public service who do not get a pension? They might get a lump sum, but they do not get any pension. There are councillors from the Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown Council who have been there for 29 years, 36 years, or 40 years. They have given their whole lives in public service, at a time when councillors were barely paid at all. There was nothing for them but a lump sum at the end of it all and "Thank you very much, off you go". The lowest paid public sector worker who is permanent or part-time will get a pension. It might not be a brilliant pension because it might not be a brilliant salary, but they will get something until the end of their days.