Barry Ward (Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire Stáit ar an ábhar tábhachtach seo. I have raised these issues on a number of occasions in this Chamber and elsewhere. It is important to make the distinction in this debate between China and its people, on the one hand, that is, the ordinary citizens trying to go about their lives, educate and feed their children and make a living, and the Chinese Communist Party and the Chinese Government, on the other. This is a distinction I have made on a number of previous occasions because the two are different. I have great respect for the Chinese people and Chinese history, and for what China has done over its innovative history regarding the development of so many things we often think are European but, in fact, originally come from China. Their history is enormous in terms of their contribution to the world. What has happened in that country since 1949 and the Communist era in China has completely changed the most populous country in the world, its attitudes to its citizens and its attitudes to the wider world.

It is important to make that distinction, which is why I disagree with what Senator Ruane said about talk of trade and undermining the human rights abuses. I recognise the importance of trade and the benefits to our economy and to individual people, companies, employees and families in this country, and I do not blame any of them for trading with China and engaging with Chinese people and society. I do not blame people for using Chinese products or driving cars built in China. All around us, including in this room, there are things that were made in China. That is not the problem. The problem is at a diplomatic and political level, and I say that with great respect to the Government. As the Minister of State noted, there has been engagement directly at the level of its foreign minister, Wang Yi, and I acknowledge that is happening.

At the same time, however, the Minister of State referred to the joint declaration by EU states that refers to the existence of a large network of political re-education camps, widespread surveillance and systematic restrictions on freedom of religion or belief against Uighurs. There is a long list of issues and we all know they are happening. There is no dispute about their happening, except from the Chinese Government. I have raised the issues of Uighurs in this Chamber previously and I received correspondence from the Chinese ambassador here with a report I consider to be entirely bogus, contradicting findings in respect of the Uighur population. I wrote to him to ask him to meet and talk about the matter but I have heard nothing since. There is no dispute in the international community about what is happening. There is a scale that goes from the threat to Taiwan, to the removal of freedom of speech and expression in Hong Kong, to the overcoming of the population in Tibet, to what we have been talking about in regard to the Uighur population in Xinjiang.Make no mistake about it, what is going on there is a genocide.

I accept the difficult position the Government is in and countries are affected differently by their relationship with China, but as we sit here and talk about it,and as Senator McDowell said in proposing this motion, it is every bit as bad as what was happening on this Continent in the early part of the 20th century. It is of the same scale. To sit here and talk about it, and not acknowledge that and take stronger action, is every bit as bad in terms of political correctness as it was for Eamon de Valera to sign the book of condolences for Hitler after his death in 1945. It is of the same order. Although it may be diplomatically and politically correct, it is morally wrong. It is something on which we must take a stand.

Let me be absolutely clear about my attitude to human rights. There are not human rights, freedom of expression or respect for the rule of law in China. It continues to not only disrespect the rule of law within its own borders, but to do so outside of China and attack fellow members of the European Union. Reference was made to Lithuania. It made the grave diplomatic mistake of acknowledging Taiwan and having a Taiwan representative office instead of a Taipei representative office in Vilnius, a distinction that the rest of us think is absolutely preposterous but which appears to raise hackles so seriously in Beijing that Lithuania has now been the recipient of a deluge of online and offline attacks from China. China withdrew its ambassador from Vilnius. It ejected the Lithuanian ambassador from Beijing.

It is a fellow European Union state and is not very different from Ireland, but perhaps has less trade with China than Ireland. Nonetheless, it is a fellow member of the European Union. It has been the subject of a pile on in terms of social media, cyberattacks and protests organised in Lithuania. I know this is difficult and that the Minister of State is in an impossible and invidious position in terms of what to do diplomatically and politically, but we are a Legislature. We are not the Executive of this country. The notion that we would not raise these issues time and again is wrong.

In the UK, in 2015 Xi Jinping referred to the Government in China being a socialist law based government with Chinese features, a definition I reject. The Chinese features he referred to must be the suppression of the population, abuse of its citizens and the disregard for human rights and the rule of law, things we accept as norms. The very fact that I can stand here and talk about that freely without fear that the Minister of State, Deputy Brophy, will launch an attack against me is a demonstration of how privileged we are relative to our counterparts in China, Hong Kong, Taiwan or anywhere else one chooses to mention.

There can be no dispute that China has thumbed its nose at the international community and has totally thrown out the baby that is human rights abuses with its own desire to keep the water of its own government. The extraordinary thing is that Taiwan is a demonstration of what China could be, namely, a much freer and productive society and a successful economic entity. The short-sightedness of Xi Jinping and the communist crew in Beijing is damaging the future of the country enormously, as well as suppressing citizens. We call on the Minister of State to make a very clear statement in that direction.