Pippa Hackett (Green Party) | Oireachtas source

I thank all of the Senators for their valuable input because they reflect the views not only of their constituents but also of the people who approach them, write to them and contact them on this issue. Therefore, it is important to discuss the licensing system from my perspective, from the perspective of my Department and from the perspective of the public.

Senator Garvey and a number of Senators highlighted their appreciation for trees and the importance of trees. Senator Garvey also highlighted the need for a mixed model. Senator Paul Daly highlighted the need to deliver across the board for forestry, which is a longer term aim for where we want to be. Part of that discussion is to engage widely as I am currently doing. In terms of a new strategy for this country, Irish Rural Link is already being engaged with publicly and it will engage in focus groups with communities affected by forestry. We will have a wide-reaching engagement with young groups online and there will be bilaterals led by the Department in terms of what we design for the future.

The main concern in this Chamber today is the current problems and impasses. Some similar themes have emerged. Confidence in the sector is an issue and we need that confidence back. We need to address how we do that and embrace that. We need to get farmers and landowners back on side because ultimately we are going to need them to deliver for us into the future.

Another element that arose is the need to have a co-ordinated approach to licensing. This issue needs to be examined. There is not much point having a felling licence if a road is not in place. I think that is something that we need to look at. There is a systems analyst now in place in the Department who considers the end-to-end process. These are the exact types of things that we look at and try to improve.

Senator Mullen has left but he talked about the appeals process as did one or two other Senators. We have a third party right of appeal. We are glad we have this important right. It is not just about directly affecting individuals. People can lodge submissions and observations on forestry applications because an application might have an impact on an environment or habitat. I think that option should be open to everyone and it is open to everyone. Certainly we are committed to that.

The appeals legislation that was brought in last year has proved very successful and has dealt with the backlog of appeals. Appeals still come in so we have not stopped appeals. That is good because we need that right of public participation, which Senator Boylan highlighted.

One or two Senators, including Senator Boylan, raised the need to consider timber for building purposes. That is an important issue and I referenced it in my opening address. Indeed, we need to look at the building regulations to permit that.I will engage with my colleagues across Government to deliver on that.

Senator Dolan acknowledged the positives, as did a couple of other Senators. I appreciate that. Regarding future skills needs, we are talking about ecologists and the numbers that we have recruited. It is becoming more difficult to recruit them and I will certainly engage with the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science, Deputy Harris, in exploring how we can open the door to recruiting not only ecologists, but also hydrologists and a variety of other people with the skills we will require in future. This will probably not just be the case with forestry, but also with any land use change. This is important.

Several Senators also spoke about the need to streamline the process. We are looking into doing that. As I said in my opening statement, we have initiated an independent review of the regulatory and legislative context in line with the environmental requirements. Senator Ahearn asked what this will do. Ideally, it will inform us as a Department. A Senator said earlier that when the Department does something, people then remark that it has been set up by the Department. This review, however, is independent and it will examine the processes and give us indications as to where we can perhaps streamline the system. Perhaps we are underdoing it or overdoing it, but we will wait to find out and do whatever it tells us. If that review tells us that we need to do more, such as to recruit 100 additional ecologists to get through this situation, then we will have to get those 100 ecologists. I hope it does not tell us that, because that would mean we are spiralling into a situation where we could not keep up with the demand. Clearly we need a fit-for-purpose licensing system. No one is denying that. Considering the targets we must reach, that must be done as soon as possible. I am hoping therefore that that independent regulatory review will inform us about what we must do in future to develop that fit-for-purpose model.

Senator Carrigy also mentioned farmer confidence and how important that is. Senators also mentioned costs and the rising price of wood, and I referred to that aspect in my opening statement. It is wrong to say that this is solely due to our licensing issue because there has been a global increase in the demand for timber recently. There is a huge demand now. We operate in a global system and we are a net exporter of timber. While we have been importing more timber than we should be, I understand that there has been a drop-off in recent months. That is a good sign, and hopefully the level of imports will continue to drop off and we will be more self-sufficient in producing what we need.

Senator Lombard mentioned the appearances at the committee. In the last year, between me and my officials, there have been a significant number of committee appearances to discuss forestry and that again highlights the concerns which exist in this area. The number of licences awarded in July and August dropped off as a result of a statutory instrument introduced at the end of June. We had been making good progress on licences issued in June. That dropped off in July and August, but it has picked up again since. I would like to think that we have turned a bit of the corner and we must just keep building on that momentum and keep driving on.

There were also one or two comments on biosecurity. We are permitted to import timber from one part of Scotland. There is free trade within the EU, however, and biosecurity has never, unfortunately, been a part of our Department’s responsibility in respect of that trade. We do have a special plant health status in respect of other products and we do apply biosecurity measures for those.

Turning to queries about farmer confidence, Senator Murphy said that he has met many foresters, farmers and owners, as indeed have I. He spoke about streamlining the process, and this is a theme which keeps coming through. I do not feel at this stage that there is a magic bullet in the form of legislation that could be brought in. I hope that the independent review might bring forward some suggestions in that regard. However, even if we were to consider bringing in legislation, it would have to stand up to national and EU law. In a way, it has been breaches of EU law that have resulted in us being in this situation in the first place. We have moved from a situation where we were issuing 6,000 and 7,000 licences each year to the current situation because of that very reason. We must, therefore, be cognisant of EU law. If we were to introduce legislation that was in breach of EU law, then we would just be taking steps backwards. I urge caution about thinking that we can just change the legislation quickly in this area. I am not sure how long I have been speaking.