Timmy Dooley (Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Naughton, for being present.

I have listened with interest to Senator Boyhan’s contribution. I am minded to support, in general terms, what he is advocating. I, too, have had contact with numerous people who work in the sector and have read with considerable interest the reports of recent weeks. The problem has been arising not only in recent weeks but also for a considerable period beforehand. I have witnessed antisocial behaviour myself on occasion when using public transport, particularly later in the evening.

Some of the behaviour in question has emerged during the pandemic, when there were probably fewer people in public areas. From talking to people around the city, I have learned that some of our public areas have been taken over to some extent by those with a desire to cause trouble. The taking of drugs in a public area is regrettable and reprehensible, and it makes it very difficult to encourage people to use public transport.

I have two young daughters. I would be concerned about them in a city at night, and I am sure many other parents would be concerned about their daughters. Despite this, I am trying to inculcate in them a desire to use public transport to a greater extent. Perhaps it is the other way around because our younger population is very much focused on doing what is right for the climate and environment yet, if the situation is not addressed quickly, we will have considerable difficulty in getting our younger cohort, or perhaps those of any age group, to use public transport after dark.

This issue arose previously in the United States. I remember seeing the approach taken by former New York police chief, Bill Bratton, together with his deputy at the time, John Timoney, who was of Irish extraction. During their governorship, they took a zero-tolerance approach to crime generally. Former Minister for Justice, Senator McDowell, will know full well about that policy. The police chief and his deputy started applying their zero-tolerance policy to crime in the train stations and on public transport, through a dedicated unit. It was felt that those who were infringing the law by not paying their fares were worth focusing on. There is something in that.

Perhaps the Minister of State will not be able to accept the amendment but I hope she can. The truth is that it sets out a desire to work with those concerned rather than dictate what the result should be. Of course issues will arise in respect of the Garda wanting to work with the various transport companies, but the problem should not be insurmountable. The amendment recognises that we need to do something to resolve the problem. It is not overly prescriptive. Hopefully we can move on it.

In general terms, the discussion on public transport is timely and important. It is important because of a desire to have a modal shift from the unnecessary use, or overuse, of individual vehicles. That is somewhat easier in urban or more built-up areas, where additional buses, trams or trains can be made available. It is more challenging in rural areas because the population density generally does not support additional public transport services. Addressing this requires an examination of planning laws and ensuring higher density in villages and towns such that they meet the needs of a changing population.

Covid has provided some opportunities. There is now a considerable number of people thinking about working from home, working in villages and towns around the country and getting out of the cities. That could have a genuinely positive benefit for all. It could help to reduce some of the competitive tensions in the larger cities in respect of purchasing housing. It could help to reduce, to some extent, the congestion in cities. If people who have been used to living in cities are to return to the villages and rural towns from which they came, they will need to see an investment in public transport and other facilities and services, including public lighting and footpaths, which would allow them to walk between their homes and the centres of their villages. A programme of work has to be implemented. Various development plans are focusing on that.

There is a significant investment proposed for our rail network, which is good. We must also consider pricing. If people can be convinced to have just one car within their household, they will save a lot more money. To achieve that, we will have to convince them. We also need to consider the fares on public transport. Fares for journeys between Limerick and Dublin, and Cork and Dublin, are expensive. The Minister of State needs to examine that.I am of the view that we should look to eliminate all fares on public transport for a period of five years in order to help to get that modal shift. That would be a good investment in the future. I would not be suggesting that we do it forever but, like any investment in infrastructure or in assisting people to get to their destination, it would be money well spent. This matter also needs to be looked at.

There is a crazy situation with school transport. I always look at young people. If you can get a certain cohort of people at an early stage in life to follow a particular behaviour, you will have them for life. The reality is that we are pushing people off buses if they live 0.1 of a mile outside the set limits and charging them money unnecessarily. We should have a free public transport system for taking people to school, with some restrictions as to where a person lives and not crossing over to assist someone to get to a school in circumstances where he or she lives outside the catchment areas of that school. If you capture young people at an early age and can get them into the habit of being on a bus, you will then have them for life. I will conclude on that point.