Rónán Mullen (Independent) | Oireachtas source

The Minister is the person who should be there because she would certainly represent this country and the Government with dignity and decorum. I just wanted to take this opportunity to put that important point on the record of this House. Sometimes it is the only way one can get the ear of the Minister.

This Bill needs to pass today. It should not be subject to a nine-month delay and there are two reasons for this. The Bill previously passed in the Seanad, which is a commendation of the good work of former Senator, Terry Leyden, for all he did to promote this legislation, and it is only for political reasons that Fianna Fáil put this Bill on the Order Paper in the Dáil yesterday.

This Bill is good to go in the sense that there will be plenty of time to amend it without such a nine-month delay, and out of respect for the Seanad and the good work that it did in the past. Let is consider also the rather crazy and counterproductive Bills that have not been subject to this nine-month delay but that have been allowed through this House on Second Stage. I could offer a list but I will not because I want to stick to the point.

The Bill mirrors the Registration of Wills Bill 2016, which passed all stages in the Seanad in 2019 but has since lapsed. The aim is simple. It is to assist in asserting upon the death of a person whether a will exists and in whose custody it is kept. It is no more and no less. Other matters such as the validity of the will, it contents, whether it has been revoked or revived, and whether there are codicils to the will, are irrelevant to the register and to this Bill.

It is a limited strike but it is a strike that makes sense because it allows people to establish whether there is a will on the register and to proceed with their search from there. The fact that the will has been registered is not proof of its validity and it will not invalidate any subsequent will that, for whatever reason, has not be registered.

On the previous occasion this issue was debated, there was an unfortunate attempt by the then Government to conflate these issues, almost to suggest that if the register said nothing about the validity or contents of the will, it would somehow make the registration irrelevant. That was to miss the point and that is not correct. A system that would allow us to assert whether a will exists and where it might be could be invaluable and prevent a lot of time, effort and resources being wasted.

Senator O'Reilly correctly referred to how interesting succession legislation is. We are talking about serious issues when we talk about succession. As always in our country, however, the seriousness of those issues makes them ripe for humour. We have all heard the line about where there is a will, there is a relative. For the benefit of Members who were not here in the House when we addressed this matter previously, I like to recall "Glenroe" when the great character, Dinny Byrne, had some expectations of inheriting from his uncle Peter.The bad news was conveyed to him by Fr. Devereux that there was no will. He said, "Dinny, I am afraid you Uncle Peter died intestate", to which Dinny replied, "I thought it was the heart". Anyway, that is not to make light of what is a serious matter.

We should encourage people to make wills as a matter of public policy. In an ideal world, everyone would do so early in order for their affairs to be promptly and properly administered according to their wishes after their death. We should provide every means we can to ensure that the record of existence of these wills or their whereabouts should be maintained in order to encourage wills as best we can. A problem clearly exists at some level with regard to missing wills, uncertainty as to whether a will exists and people dying intestate.

In the August-September 2021 edition of the Law Society Gazette, there were 19 notices from solicitors advertising to other solicitors asking their colleagues if they were aware of the existence of a will made by a named deceased person. Every edition of that publication contains at least as many such notices. In fact, the only people likely to be discommoded by the creation of the register would be the Law Society Gazettebecause it charges €155 for these advertisements. I have no desire to deprive it of revenue but I do not think the maintenance of its revenue is a sufficient argument not to provide for the registration and the possibility of registering wills.

As I understand it, solicitors also correspond with other solicitors in their locality inquiring as to whether they are aware of the existence of a will for a particular deceased person. All this adds to time and cost. Of course, the existence of a will does not mean that it is all plain sailing. I recently read Bowen's Courtby Elizabeth Bowen in which she recounts the details of wills concluded in the 1700s, describes allegations of shenanigans with regard to their content and relays an urban legend about a stash of gold coins being secretly buried on family property. And that family was embroiled in two costly and futile legal actions, one of which went all the way to the House of Lords, causing resentments which survived into the 20th century. Most Irish families are not quite so fond of drama as the Bowens but problems can and do sometimes arise even where a will exists. However, at least if a will exists and is located then for good or ill, and no matter what fallout it might cause, it will show the wishes of the testator and surviving relatives can proceed from there.

The Bill, therefore, will establish a register making it easier to locate a will and to "reduce the risk of a will remaining unknown or found belatedly". There will be no requirement to file a copy of the actual will. Apart from very basic details identifying the testator, no details of any kind about the will itself will be registered. A will is a deeply personal instrument to which the highest standards of confidentiality should apply unless waived by the testator, and even the bare details about the testator and the will's existence will not be a matter of public record. In the words of former Senator Terry Leyden, these details will not be made available "to any family member or inquisitive neighbour".

Finally, under section 10-----