Barry Ward (Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Minister of State for his time and his comprehensive response on the various issues that were raised. I am very grateful to Members who took the time to read, consider and speak on the Bill. I am in no way an apologist for the national lottery and I have no skin in the game. I am not anti-gambling; I have been known to buy a lotto ticket and to go to Leopardstown and place a bet on a horse. I am not here on behalf of the national lottery or anything like that. It is important to state that comments such as those from Senator Davitt that more people are addicted to the lotto than to gambling at bookies are unfounded. Equally, the suggestion by Senator Blaney that minors routinely play the lotto when they are not allowed is also unfounded. We heard from Senators Carrigy and Maria Byrne about the checks and restrictions in place in the various lotto games. It is very important to acknowledge they are there. Senator Boylan indicated she felt the Bill does not address problem gambling and she is absolutely right about that. She is quite correct in saying there is a major problem with problem gambling. As the Minister of State said, it can result in the devastation of families. Everybody in the House acknowledges this. We have had debates on it and we look forward to the gambling regulatory Bill that is coming. We will all welcome it.

Everybody would like to see greater restriction on the way in person and online gambling operate in our society. However, this is not what the Bill is trying to do. The Bill has a different purpose. I acknowledge the issues raised, by Senator Davitt for example, in respect of advertising and the point Senator Boylan made about the interruption of the Saturday evening film by the lotto. They are legitimate points. They are absolutely things that should be and can be addressed.

In the context of regulation, it is important to remember that, as the Minister of State said, bookies are not the subject of a proper regulatory regime at present but the national lottery is. The type of regulation we see with the national lottery has changed the field over recent years. For example, people cannot spend more than €90 per day on national lottery products. They cannot bet on the national lottery after 10 p.m. in person or online. People cannot even check their tickets after 10 p.m. There is no engagement with national lottery services after 10 p.m. People cannot buy more than ten scratch cards. Restrictions have been put in place as part of the regulation of the national lottery.

As I said at the very outset of the debate, there can be no doubt the national lottery occupies an incredibly privileged position by virtue of the fact it has a de facto monopoly. This is not denied. Part of what I have called the social dividend and payback that comes from this is that money comes back to citizens of the country through the good causes fund. It is tremendously important to recognise this. It is the basis on which we bring forward the Bill to deal with the fact that moneys diverted into gambling and bookies take away from the good causes fund.

Senator Murphy suggested that this is not as big an issue as we think it is. In fact, depending on who we talk to, gambling on the national lottery outside the national lottery is worth between €20 million and €400 million a year. This varies between what the national lottery or various bookie organisations would say. The Minister of State has cited figures to suggest that between €40 million and €60 million is being diverted away from the national lottery and away from the good causes fund. When consider this, I think about various organisations in my area that have profited or benefited from the good causes fund. With regard to the sports capital grants alone there is Avoca Hockey Club, Monkstown Hockey Club, Dublin Bay Sailing Club, Sailing in Dublin, the Irish National Sailing and Powerboat School, Crosscare, Dalkey rowing club, St. Michael's Rowing Club in Dún Laoghaire, Dalkey Devils Volleyball Club, Trojan Swim Club and 12th Port Sandycove Canoeing Club. I will not list them all because the Minister of State, who comes from the same area, knows how many local organisations benefit from the fund. The Bill is about safeguarding this funding for our communities and local organisations and the bodies that survive on the basis of this funding.

I thank all Members who spoke on the Bill. In his closing remarks, the Minister of State spoke about problems with the drafting. This is Second Stage of a long journey for the Bill. I look forward to working with the Minister of State's officials in dealing with the issues. The Minister of State specifically addressed the issue of my proposed section 46(1) replacement and he has identified a legitimate issue. I look forward to amendments being tabled on Committee Stage to address gaps I may have left in the drafting of the Bill. There is work to be done. We can make progress. We can safeguard those moneys. We can protect the social dividend that comes from the national lottery. We can make sure we take a step in this direction by passing the Bill. In this regard I am grateful to the Minister of State, Members and the Cathaoirleach for the time.