Seanad debates

Tuesday, 21 September 2021

Bullying and Sexual Harassment in Third Level Institutions: Motion

 

2:30 pm

Photo of Lynn RuaneLynn Ruane (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I thank every single person for contributing today. The motion, the NDA Bill and work of this kind are my next steps in moving on from purging and purging myself of my experiences and trying to be heard, to get an education and to get people to understand. It does not happen easily because each and every time I work on something in this area and have a telephone conversation with someone who tells me of an experience they have had, it takes another little piece of my energy or triggers my own trauma. When I come into the Chamber, the support, awareness, understanding and solidarity in respect of work like this help on the healing side that we have all been talking about. When I do not have to justify or explain why something is so necessary, I can then seek healing from my own experiences throughout my life. The legislative work being done in parallel with the other work in this area is so important because others are being denied healing. I have been very lucky in that, like Aoibhinn Ní Shúilleabháin, I have been able to speak. There are so many people affected. A couple of Senators asked why people do not come forward, but what about those who have whom we will never know about? There are hundreds upon hundreds of them. The message that today's debate sends to the universities is that they now need to create a space in which they must undo and unravel what has happened, whereby people cannot speak out.

It is important to note that there was no conversation today that triggered me. That is unusual in that I have heightened senses for this stuff at this stage. None of the conversation triggered me, and that is such a signal that we can move forward and work together in this area.

I am involved in an international conversation on this now. I do not know how it happened but, all of a sudden, there are all these women from around the world who meet every few weeks.These include MEPs from the UK and representatives from Australia and the US, including California. A movement has come together and, out of all the sectors, the university sector is the one that comes up most, which always stands out to me. That is why the motion is important. Even though the Department of Health and other Departments all have to examine the different sectors they fund that are probably using NDAs, the university sector seems to come up time and time again.

Recently, the International Bar Association published a brilliant piece on NDAs. The Financial Timeshas focused on the proposed legislation in Ireland, as have several US newspapers. They are all now looking at Ireland's NDA legislation and the conversation we are having. They are all asking me about it because they are coming up against barriers all the time and I am saying that I think we are good in Ireland. Everyone seems to get the wrongness of this. That is very much down to the women who have come before us, especially on the issue of institutional abuse and Magdalen laundries. This issue cannot be seen in isolation from those women. It is because of their willingness to keep putting themselves out, and how they had to sign confidentiality clauses to access redress and all those different things, that they have raised the social consciousness so much, they have also carved out the space for us to be able to have this conversation in the wider sense. I thank them for that in the context of this debate.

I will finish by referencing the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth, which has been brilliant. Since the first debate on this issue, officials have been in contact. We have had several meetings about what research should look like, how we can get the data, how we can access it and what is the prevalence. The officials have gone away and got stuck into it, which is good. If every Department did that, we could move this conversation along to protect victims in all sectors, beyond the universities and into every type of employment. The message I will send today is that we should move forward and not put the onus completely on people to tell us about their NDAs. That is where we lack data because people are frightened. At the end of the day, the people signing the NDA are not the only ones in the room. Other lecturers, advocates, barristers, solicitors and union representatives are also present. They also know about the prevalence of NDAs and can speak up about their use. They do not have to reference a particular case or person. They do not have to do any of that but they can speak up instead of saying, "Oh well, we didn't sign an NDA so that doesn't apply to us", even though they are aware of its existence. We should begin to encourage those conversations in the university sector where those in it speak up.

I have a couple of examples of NDAs as we have been collecting them and trying to identify the variations between them. Everything is redacted in one in terms of identifying anybody. Another states that the consent of the other person who signed it must be sought if the complainant is to tell anybody about it. We have spoken so much about consent, but let us imagine having to go to the person you made complaints about to seek consent to, potentially, talk. I cannot believe people write this stuff. These are educated people - what is going on? We are talking about consent at primary level age but these are top academic staff and this cannot be real. Some of the stuff I have seen written in NDAs is quite baffling to me. Sometimes it is framed as a matter of victim protection and it is not. We need to move away from that because if it was about protection of the victim, then only the confidentiality of the victim would be protected. A perpetrator and the reputation of the university would never be protected and a perpetrator would never receive a glowing reference allowing him or her to move around. That is protection of something else. We have convinced people they are protecting the victim by introducing NDAs and that is just inaccurate. I thank everybody. Senator Ward will be delighted to know that season 3 of "Sex Education" is now available on Netflix.

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