Pauline O'Reilly (Green Party) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Minister. I thank Senators Ruane and Norris for bringing forward this motion. I also thank the Cathaoirleach because it is his innovation to have these kinds of debates on panels in the Seanad. It is welcome and I look forward to more of them. This is an important topic for a first debate. We all have something to say on the matter. There is cross-party support. I commend my party colleague, Dr. Aoibhinn Ní Shúilleabháin, on bringing this issue to the fore. It should not take someone like Dr. Ní Shúilleabháin coming forward.

I am going to split the issue into two different components. I know that Senator Warfield and I speak about RSE a lot so I am not going to repeat everything that he said but I would like to split up the issue. There is an understanding of sex, relationships and consent, on the one hand, and, on the other hand, there is power and control. It is important that we look at it from both perspectives. There is an element of power and control involved when we are talking about consent but there is also a lot of learning there for children and young people. It is not just that they arrive into third level education and adulthood not understanding about relationships and consent, there is also the fact that people in their workplaces need to feel safe, regardless of where they are. Harassment, and sexual harassment in particular, is used as a form of power and control over others, particularly women and those who are more vulnerable. Those in more senior positions are typically responsible. I absolutely agree with Senator Chambers that we need to ask people what the reasons are but something that spring to mind, and about which people often speak, is that third level institutions are closed loops. Even if one is to look internationally, it is a very small pool of people. It is difficult within a small pool of people to put your hand up because you could be marking your card for your career and it may be somebody in a powerful position who you are marking your card with. That is quite a daunting prospect for someone who has spent a long time getting to a position in their career and who is potentially going to risk it all. One should never feel like that. Someone who is bringing something up is always in the right and is really supporting other people, as Dr. Ní Shúilleabháin has. As I say, one should not have to do that.

I sat on a board of management and the údarás of National University of Ireland, Galway, NUIG, as a councillor. I was discussing this issue with other Senators in the canteen earlier and it is interesting that this motion prompted those discussions. One can feel somewhat removed from what is actually happening, department by department, when one is on such a board of management. That needs to be addressed.We have discussed this in the education committee. Senator Dolan was there, and I know that she also has strong views on this. We need to look at giving independence to third level institutions. However, what does that mean when it comes to our responsibility as a State? We have to make sure that people working in those institutions have some element of their own identity and their own decision-making powers. How can we then ensure as a State that all the staff is looked after? We must have that discussion on an ongoing basis.

I remember when the Minister came to what was possibly the first joint Oireachtas committee on education. My very first question was on consent. The Minister spoke at length about the importance of addressing consent in this term of Government. That is one of the Minister’s top priorities. We all support that. I am looking forward to hearing the Minister’s comments. I know he brought forward the survey, for instance, which is a good step.

To go back to the issue of relationship and sex education, RSE, we just do not have it right in primary schools and secondary schools. I believe that is partly because of our patronage system, although I know it is not the only reason. Every child in every school needs to have the same education. That is the State's responsibility. Children need to recognise themselves in the kind of education that they are receiving, whatever their sexuality, and whatever the sexuality of their parents. That is the only way that we can deliver a proper RSE programme to every child going to school - and it has to start in primary school - where their own cultures and social lives outside school are recognised.

I have heard so many stories. I want to commend the great, pioneering work that NUIG has done on active consent. It is now a model around the country. There are so many stories of children who, by the time they leave school, have no understanding of what it is to have a natural relationship with someone else, which is built on mutual respect. Many of those stories came out in some of the surveys done by NUIG. They are quite harrowing and difficult to read. As a parent, you want to make sure that your boys, girls and children of all genders are getting an understanding that equips them. A parent does not want anyone to feel that they are in a relationship where their partner is not actively consenting. Children just do not have that educational background. Everyone deserves to have it, whether they are victims or perpetrators. We owe it to the whole of society. We are not getting this right. Again, I thank Senator Ruane and the Minister for coming in.