Malcolm Byrne (Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I would like a bit of clarity on what current international carbon-recording practices are, because they can be quite vague and generalised. The OECD has done some work on this, but it varies as to what exactly the definition involves.

I favour us exploring an emissions trading scheme. I say this because it is important, in the context of this legislation, that we bring people with us. I accept the Minister's point that it is not just farmers who are custodians of the land, but it is farmers who will be our front-line workers in the battle against climate change. What farmers want now is sustainability - not just from an environmental perspective but also from a financial point of view. We must shift to a situation whereby farm families believe that by doing things which are environmentally friendly they will be able to sustain their families financially. That is why I favour an emissions trading scheme. At present, if somebody looks at planting a forest or pasture land that could be used as a carbon sink, any of the carbon credits that they may generate are owned by the State. It is almost a communist system. Whereas, if we move to a situation whereby we can reward and recognise farmers by investing and that they will be able to trade the credits they produce or create, they can either offset them against other farm activities or offset them more generally. Then we can see a sustainable model that is both financially and environmentally sustainable.

The New Zealand emissions trading scheme has flaws. I do not say that it is directly applicable here, but it is one whereby participants have to pay an emission unit for every 2 tonnes of carbon dioxide they produce. It is pretty clear. There is a fixed price of NZ$35 that they have to pay, but farmers are then also incentivised to generate income for themselves if they use land as a carbon sink. I would like to see that kind of model being explored. Just transition is not only about telling people this is what they cannot do, it also involves providing them with real opportunities to be able to generate income so that they can sustain their families and communities. We must be imaginative in the approach we take.That is why I believe an emissions trading scheme should be considered. It should be considered if it means it gets us to a position where we have carbon sinks. It also incentivises people who own the land to create them. This is an approach we need to take across all this legislation. I appreciate that the Minister is working at this for a long number of years so I will not say the easy part is the passing of the legislation. The bigger challenge will be putting it into effect with the carbon budgets. That means bringing people along with us. If that means we should consider ways whereby we can incentivise and reward, we should definitely approach it in that way. I would certainly like to hear the Minister's views on the possibility of considering an emissions trading scheme and on how we can reward landowners so they can ensure that, for them and their families, their livelihoods will be sustainable.