Pauline O'Reilly (Green Party) | Oireachtas source

I take on board the points Senator Ruane is making. However, myself and Senator Higgins are probably the only people here who sit on the Joint Committee on Environment and Climate Action committee and we had extensive discussion and back-and-forth on how to define a just transition. That is fact. We also had witnesses before the committee talking about just transition. It is not easy. The point was taken on board previously as regards climate justice. The environmental NGOs have said that when it comes to climate justice, it is better to have no definition than a wrong one. There are understandings of a just transition and we are taking the steps towards it. That is the most important thing and that is why we need to get this Bill over the line. We are taking the steps for a just transition for this country and for those most at risk, such as workers and those who cannot work but must be supported out of incomes that were reliant on fossil fuel industries and so on. That is the most important thing to remember.

Let us also put something into this Bill about promoting just transition. We have a record in this area. We are not trying to be evasive. It is simply a case that defining a just transition is quite difficult and having a definition over which we cannot stand would stymie the types of transitions we are looking for. While I take on board the points Senator Ruane has made, the committee on which I sit had hours of debate and back-and-forth on definitions. Just transition is not that easy to define and we should make sure that in ten years we are still able to stand over whatever changing understanding there is of a just transition and climate justice. Fundamentally it comes back to the point that the actions taken have to be consistent with the UNFCCC and the Paris Agreement, as referred to in section 5 of the Bill.