Michael McDowell (Independent) | Oireachtas source

It is welcome that a Bill of this kind has come before the House. I recognise the uncontrolled joy of some of the Green Party members of this House and the other House, that they have had the patience to implement a central plank of their party's policy. I admire their tenacity in doing that. I will say a few things, if I may, about some of the language that is being used about Ireland and Ireland's role in the whole question of environmental sustainability.

The Minister, Deputy Ryan, and his colleagues have spoken in this House about Ireland having a leadership role and about Ireland having the most ambitious legislation on this. I want to temper this with realism. What Ireland does one way or the other, apart from moral example, is probably infinitesimally insignificant. We must temper our ambitions in climate change with the actual economic consequences for our society. It is not just a matter of a purist ideological approach; we must be pragmatic. We must look at every single step and ask ourselves, "Is this step one that we can sustain?", bearing in mind that in one afternoon China would do more to affect CO2 emissions with its coal-fired power stations than we would do in five years. We have to be practical in not making ourselves the sacrificial victims for other people's failure to face up to the international climate challenge. Whereas I agree with the Minister's enthusiasm and I share the Minister's pride, I do not want it to be an overweening pride. It must be remembered that Ireland has to survive also.

The Minister has made the point that complying with climate change targets can be a positive rather than a negative, a point which I accept in many respects, but it cannot become an absolute religion. We cannot turn ourselves into some kind of green equivalent of an Islamic republic in pursuit of some purist ideal. I will instance one example. In the previous Seanad I was a member of the climate committee. We spent a lot of time talking about the roll-out of Internet access across the State. One of the things I raised constantly over the three years was the whole question of data centres. I constantly got the same message back from the Department there represented, which was, in effect, flannel. It never actually faced up to the proposition that the Irish State's industrial policy was to attract into Ireland data centres that were going to gobble up 30% or 35% of our electricity output.It is in that context I make the following point. There is a lack of reality in regard to our energy policies. I do not want to comment on any individual case, but the wind farms are being knocked this way and that in the Four Courts. I do not see how we are going to comply with a policy that is designed to electrify the whole country. If all power depends on electricity and transport is, in the major part in urban areas at the very least, electric I do not see how we are pursuing a strategy in regard to electric power that will keep us functioning as an economy. I want that on the record. We are speaking with forked tongue in some respects in saying that we want sustainable energy generation. I welcome offshore wind farms, but God only knows what group will emerge to try to stop them. It will not be the fishermen, but some other group that will take the view they are dangerous to sea birds, swans or migrating birds and so on. I would like to see some reality in that regard.

My second point is in regard to infrastructure, on which I have previously had a discussed with the Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan. The proposed electrification of our road transport is not an excuse to stop building roads. The Green Party needs to take on board the point that roads are important. Improving our road infrastructure is important. People give out about the Government of which I was a member. It made mistakes; I have no doubt about that, but there is one thing it stuck at. Prior to my membership of that Government, I was the Attorney General. The then Taoiseach, Bertie Ahern, set up a Cabinet committee on road transport and the motorways were built in a way that they had not been built before. The five-mile stretches that were being built by local authorities were suddenly converted into a real motorway network. We need to connect Sligo to Dublin by motorway and the Derry-Donegal road must be built. People may speak, as the Minister does on occasion, about a preference for rail transport. I understand the Minister's preference for rail transport in certain circumstances, but, again, let us be real. We can build a fair few hundred kilometres of railway in Ireland, but it will not have a significant affect on the demands for road transport. I want that on the record. It is sometimes easy for people to say, "We aren't in favour of road transport; we prefer rail transport." It is possible to build the light railway system in Galway but will it significantly affect the transport needs of the north-western region getting to Dublin or the Cork-Limerick motorway and so on? These projects must go ahead.

If trucks and cars are powered by hydrogen so be it; they have to travel some way. The journey to Donegal, Derry or Letterkenny should not take five or six hours. It should be possible to do it in four hours. That is the type of progress that makes Ireland a better place in which to do business and it brings regional balance in this country as well. I ask the enthusiastic Green Party members here today to bear in mind that road infrastructure is important and that rail infrastructure is not the answer to everything. In fact, it is an odds-against answer for most purposes. It may be good for commuting into the city of Dublin and for particular main trunk routes, and the Dublin-Belfast rail route might benefit from further investment, but we must proceed with our road infrastructure too.

I believe in the afforestation process. We have had a pretty unfortunate last couple of years in regard to afforestation in terms of the delays in licensing and so on. It has been pretty shameful that the Irish State has collapsed on this issue. The sooner it gets back up and running on it the better. Having spent a few weekends in Roscommon, I can see all of this.Reafforestation in places like the Wicklow Mountains will mean that a lot of the beautiful scenery there will be less visible to those on bicycles and in cars travelling through. I am in favour of reafforestation but as a society, we must face up to what it will mean. It is necessary and a good thing but it cannot be all about conifers for timber. I accept all of that but in the last analysis, I do not think this Government is taking afforestation sufficiently seriously.