Erin McGreehan (Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Minister. It is nice to see him again. I congratulate Senator Ruane on her work on the Bill. To my embarrassment, it concerns an issue I was not well briefed on before the debate. I am grateful to her for highlighting this work and advocating for this change to create a safer and more just place for everyone. I very much welcome the debate and the Bill and I am glad to say we will support it. It is my pleasure to support Senator Ruane in getting this legislative change. I am proud to be a tiny cog in her wheel pushing this through.

When I was reading the Bill and learning about it, it stirred up a great deal of anxiety in me. We are dealing with a legacy of silence and of placing victims in what one might call purgatory. The idea of non-disclosure agreements made me think how they were used in Ireland almost by default, through a fear of speaking up, until brave victims stood up and told their truth. We have seen the consequences of secrecy and of moving abusers from one place to another, protecting low-lifes and creeps and putting more people at risk of abuse.

I listened to the webinar that Senator Ruane organised and I was sad to hear about the concept of "moving the trash" raised by Professor Julie Macfarlane. It was a new term to me. It was coined to describe the continued protection of abusers, moving them from one organisation to the next. Unfortunately, that is a familiar tale in this country, particularly in the context of the church. The contributors to the webinar related deeply upsetting experiences. We as a country should never hand abusers and employers a get-out-of-jail card.

It is outrageous that non-disclosure agreements are used against victims to reduce their rights. The law should always be actively weighted in favour of, not against, the victim. It is never in the public interest to bury abuse cases. Currently, as was noted, no legislative provisions govern NDAs or confidential clauses in settlement agreements, and the extent of the use of NDAs in Ireland in these circumstances is unknown. Let us hope we can get to the bottom of that and lift the lid on some of what is happening.

I fully agree that the public interest lies in ensuring that instances of harassment or discrimination in the workplace are not concealed. As Senator Ruane rightly said, the right of a victim to negotiate his or her settlement to protect his or her privacy is important and should always be respected. The Bill will empower the victim. It will empower individuals to have ownership of their abuse, their life experience and the choice to give back. That should always be in the victim's hands, irrespective of the next step. Abuse, in whatever form it takes, is all about the destruction of an individual's power, person and agency, and non-disclosure agreements continue to take the power away from victims.

An issue that makes me so uncomfortable relates to the fact that abuse is often classed as a trade secret and that a crime can be treated like a corporate act. Abuse and discrimination are against the law. This highlights another issue, in cases of sexual abuse and violence, when the victim is almost put on trial. Every step along the way, the distribution of justice is definitely not in the victim's favour. Thankfully, there are some ongoing reviews and reforms at the Department of Justice, so I hope that will help in that regard. A company has no business in the matter of policing abuse or of treating it as a trade secret. Some NDAs, as Senator Ruane noted, work to subvert the course of justice.

The Bill will be a global template. For a country that is still dealing with a legacy of abuse and silence, this will be one way in which it can go about getting back its good name. Let us stand with victims and support them. There is no place for the protection of abusers. I very much welcome the Bill.