Ossian Smyth (Dún Laoghaire, Green Party) | Oireachtas source

Of course. Senator Horkan raised the issue of pensions for councillors, which I did not expect to hear about and which is not covered by this Bill, a point Senator Horkan made. He also raised the case of secretarial assistants, who fall between two stools as they work in the public sector but are not public sector employees. Their pay was not cut by FEMPI, but it was already incredibly low and their plight is recognised. The Department of Public Expenditure and Reform is in talks with the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission because the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform has to approve any changes to their pay and conditions. I would like to see a change in their pay and conditions. Talks in that regard are ongoing and I will talk to my officials about the issue.

Senators Sherlock and Gavan were praiseworthy of the Bill and pointed out there had been union co-operation to reach this point. They also pointed out it is progressive and people at the lower end of the salary scale will receive much higher increases than those at the top. That is as it should be. We can see the hard work done by special needs assistants, SNAs, and often the people who are the essential workers and who are the low paid, as we were all reminded during the pandemic.

Senator Sherlock made the point she would like to see a new system for the determination of pay and pointed out the cases of Secretaries General in particular Departments. This Bill is not needed to change the salary for a vacant position. It was always possible to change that, but it was not always possible to change the salary of somebody already in position. This Bill allows that to be possible without having to come up with primary legislation or go to the Labour Court for a determination.

Senator Garvey mentioned the new public consultant contract. I am delighted that public health specialists, who have come to the fore during the pandemic, whose value to society is incredible and who prevent health problems before they happen, will, as a result of this legislation if it passes, all now be entitled to apply for the new consultant contract. This will mean the public health service will be consultant-led rather than specialist-led, which has been a request for many years.

Senator Kyne referenced working from home and asked whether there was any analysis of homeworking and whether it had been a success. Studies have been done and it is clear from people's own accounts that a large proportion of them would like to work from home full-time, a larger proportion would like to mix working from home with working in the office, and a smaller number of people want to return to the office full-time. The Department for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, under the Minister, Deputy Varadkar, is providing guidelines to support that and allow people to work from home unless it is not possible to do so. Most people's desire is to achieve that hybrid status where they can work it around their lives, spending some days at home while having meetings or social contact in the office for a couple of days as well. It will be one of the positives to come out of the pandemic that will be possible and people will have a better quality of life as a result. There have been academic studies on it. Previous studies on working from home had not shown it was a positive thing to do, and it turned out the people who volunteered, who had self-selected to work from home, were perhaps not the most industrious. When everybody was made to work from home, it turned out the average person was more efficient at home and got more done.

Senator Craughwell asked about the Defence Forces. Union recognition for the Defence Forces is a matter for the Minister for Defence and cannot be changed by this Bill or by my Department. I am committed to seeing the Defence Forces and Garda associations fully represented in public sector pay talks, as they ought to be. I look forward to what comes out of the review of the Defence Forces that is ongoing. Senator Craughwell also mentioned the pension abatement for public sector workers and suggested it would be better if pay rather than pensions were abated. He referred to pensions as a property right and compared it to the right of prisoners to claim pensions when they reach pension age. That is something I have not considered but I will do so.

Senator Gavan praised the Bill for a number of reasons including the sectoral bargaining element and the restoration of pay equality for new entrant teachers, which was sought for many years. He referred to the right to collective bargaining. I am a little confused by that because, as far as I am aware, it is enshrined in European law under one of the treaties we ratified. I believe it is the Charter of Fundamental Rights that guarantees the right of all European citizens to collective bargaining and perhaps we can-----