Barry Ward (Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Bill, as have most speakers in the debate. I congratulate the Minister on bringing it forward. This is an issue of concern for a very long time. Some of my colleagues in the legal profession fought this battle decades ago and established in the courts the discrepancies in the way people were paid different amounts for the work they were doing. They deserve great credit for that. Many of them are still in practice and still fighting that battle. It is very difficult for us to understand why it has taken so long to bring solutions here, but I praise the Minister for the work he has done and the commitment he has given to this matter.

I will respond to some of the questions that were posed. It is very important to acknowledge that this is the beginning of a body of work that I hope will bring a resolution to this issue, but it is not the solution in and of itself. It is not a panacea to address discrepancies in pay rates.

Senator Mullen commented on the fact that the Bill was not voted against by any Deputy when it went through the Dáil. I do not agree that it is a reason for scepticism. Sometimes when legislation goes through the Houses, we are all ad idemon it because it makes sense and it is the right thing to do. That is sometimes why legislation is not challenged.

I read the European Commission's report some years ago that dealt starkly with the different pay rates and specifically the gender pay gap in Europe in the various member states. At the time I read it I had some difficulty with the methodology that had been employed. It is very popular in politics today to say one has travelled a journey on an issue and it is easy for me to say that as somebody who was not subject to the gender pay gap. I know that it existed when I was an employee in the private sector in the past. When I look back at women who worked with me, with whom I was friendly, I know they were not paid the same rate as me, so I know it happens. One of the difficulties I had with the European Commission's report was that it did not allow, for example, for the number of years worked by a person who had taken maternity leave. I now realise in retrospect that it should not have taken account of that because there is a fundamental unfairness and inequity in saying that somebody should be penalised essentially for being a parent. The fact is that only women can bear the biological burden of giving birth to children, taking maternity leave and creating the bond in the early years and there is a fundamental unfairness in saying that they should be penalised in their work status thereafter. That is very important for us to recognise. It is one of the many areas of concern. Many speakers have spoken about the different areas in which women are discriminated against in the workplace, but it is one area, in particular over the course of a longer career and in the higher paid professions and in positions in multinational companies, where women suffer when they take time out to avail of maternity leave. Even in the past year since I became a Senator, we have talked in this Chamber about the benefits and the importance of providing leave for both parents and the need to facilitate the early years for parents. It is so wrong that we would penalise those people for taking the opportunity to be a parent in that context, but more than that, it is also important that we do not disincentivise parenthood and people who occupy that position because we need them to take on that role. We need them to provide the workers of the future, the taxpayers of the future, the pension payers of the future. That is tremendously important.

I will make one other point that is tremendously important to mention in the context of this debate. I bring myself back to January 2020 during the general election campaign in Dún Laoghaire when all of the candidates were invited to a hustings in Loreto College, Foxrock, which is a girls school near where I live. There were fourth, fifth and sixth years at the event. One of the girls asked what we would do about the gender pay gap. A response was given by a right wing candidate suggesting that the pay gap was a myth, who subsequently came last in the election and lost his deposit. That was enlightening. Much more important than that was the fact that young girls who were certainly not in full-time employment were aware of the issue, understood it and were willing to raise it. While we require employers, the Government, the Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission, IHREC, and society to take note of it, that gave me great hope because in the future we also need employees to know their rights, to stand up for their rights and question it when they know they are subject to a pay gap that is based on gender or some other spurious ground. It gave me great hope that there was a young woman in that position, raising the issue and fighting that battle. I hope she will continue to do so when she becomes an employee. I congratulate the Minister and look forward to him passing the legislation.