Alice-Mary Higgins (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I will try to reduce to six minutes to allow time. I am sure we are keen to hear the Minister's response to the issues raised.

I welcome the Minister to the House and thank him for bringing this Bill. It is also appropriate to thank Senator Bacik. Fundamentally, this piece of legislation is part of a suite of legislation looking at the intersection between gender equality and employment rights which Senator Bacik has brought through these Houses, including the important legislation on collective bargaining and, indeed, her new proposals in respect of reproductive rights leave. It is appropriate to acknowledge that because it is an example of taking two equality issues and looking deeply at how they can intersect and how we as legislators can address them both together.

There are areas in Senator Bacik's legislation which, I believe, are stronger than this legislation. I understand many of the principles but an excessively cautious approach, not in terms of impact but in terms of timing, and strength and scope of impact, is being taken throughout this Bill.

I join with others in saying that the idea of waiting three years before we look to employers of 150 or fewer workers is not acceptable at all. It is taking place, the Minister should bear in mind, not simply in the situation where we were a couple of years ago when we were debating the original legislation which has had very long debate and lots of scrutiny, but also in the context of a new Citizens' Assembly which has made clear recommendations and set hard timelines for the kind of gender equality it wants to see in our workplaces. This Bill is also coming through at a moment post-Covid at the brink of just transition when we are seeing a considerable amount of companies restructuring and reorganising themselves, and the potential rise in remote working. It is really important that they get things right from the beginning. Part of them getting things right, their environmental policy, looking at how they use remote working and ensuring that it does not, for example, damage opportunities for progression but that they think things through is that they would be reporting on the gender pay equality issues. I would urge that, on Committee and Report Stages, the Minister would reduce that three-year period to allow for this to be meaningful and in tune at least with the moment we are in, if not ahead of it.

I also note and agree with the concerns about the many places in the Bill where we talk about "Regulations made under this section may prescribe...". That may be a choice in drafting but it is important that there is certainty and predictability. In that context, I say "will" would be more appropriate so that we do not have an incremental piece arguing for the delay in these being brought in because we have only tried it this way for a while, we changed it there for a while and now we are only finally producing regulations in one of the aspects. It needs to start strongly and with intent and clarity.

I want to highlight a few areas that I believe might need further strengthening within the Bill. There are aspects that are really good. I welcome that the median is being discussed in terms of hourly remuneration. I also welcome that there is an identification of certain different kinds. There is a recognition, for example, of temporary contracts and temporary employees. That will be really important. We need to make sure this legislation works for all kinds of employees and that it catches the facts of more insecure working-style contracts for many women in the workplaces. I am concerned that we may not be catching it at the top. While bonuses are addressed, it is not clear whether benefits-in-kind, for example, will capture the situations we are seeing increasingly where shares are being given as part of a remuneration package. It is important that would be caught and monitored, and some of the particular privileges and measures that are given to special assignees. We need to be looking at the gender equality at that level in the workplace as well and making sure that is captured.

I welcome the fact that there is at least a snapshot whereby there is a requirement for reporting on the numbers of staff at each quintile within a workplace. There is something still around progression. That is why being clearer about the times in which this reporting will take place is important. That is something that has been key to the success of, for example, the Athena Scientific Women's Academic Network, SWAN, programme within the university systems. That programme charts and requires evidence of progression and rather than merely a disappointing snapshot from time to time, it shows where is the movement between different levels and what addresses are there. As Senator Warfield said, there are many reasons for the gender pay gap but they are not excuses. They are problems to be tackled that they identify. It is around less women being promoted into higher-paid roles, it is about missing rungs of the ladder for women climbing within organisation but is also around certain kinds of work being undervalued compared with other kinds of work. There are a number of issues to tackle. For this to be effective, we need this legislation to provide not only a snapshot but arrows towards sectoral changes because some of the changes will be specific to specific sectors and to the wider national and legislative changes that we need to take to tackle these issues.

I welcome the Bill. I look forward to engaging on it. There are a few areas that may need strengthening and there are loopholes. We also need to show seriousness about this and, indeed, passion about implementing it. That is why I would urge that the Bill be reviewed by the Minister's office with just the thought of if we wanted this to send the strongest possible signal, how would we strengthen it. There are some very good ideas in Senator Bacik's original legislation in that regard and there are also some good ideas from the Citizens' Assembly.

I will finish early in order to facilitate colleagues.