Robbie Gallagher (Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

Ba mhaith liom fáilte a chur roimh an Aire Stáit go dtí an Teach. I welcome the Minister of State to the House today to discuss this most important issue. At the outset, I wish to commend Senator Boylan, and indeed my Sinn Féin colleagues, on bringing forward this piece of legislation. From a Fianna Fáil perspective, we will certainly not oppose it. We very much welcome it.

As previous speakers have commented, events have moved on, in that the legal aid board has moved to remove the housing assistance payment, HAP, from the calculation to entitlement to legal aid. That is very welcome. I am aware that there was mention earlier of the delay in the Government moving on this particular issue. Most reasonable people would be take the view - which I would certainly put forward - that in relation to this particular piece of legislation, the Government has only been in office for 12 months. By any stretch of the imagination it has been an extraordinary time with the Covid-19 pandemic, when the normal business of the day, if I can use that expression, was left to one side not just on issues as warranted as this, but also in respect of many other issues. Therefore, the Government should be lauded and not criticised for moving on an issue such as this within the first 12 months of being in office. It is worth making that point.

I also welcome the fact that the justice plan for 2021 states that a review of the entire civil legal aid system will take place. That is most welcome. I look forward to the consultation on that, when, as outlined by Senator Higgins previously, people will have an opportunity to make submissions to the review. When will that review take place? Does the Minister have a date in mind for it? How long will the review last? When can we expect the recommendations that flow from that review to be enacted and implemented?

In Fianna Fáil, we are quite proud of the fact that in 1979, it was the then Minister for Justice, Gerry Collins, who introduced the legal aid board to ensure that income - or should I say, the lack thereof - would not be a barrier to anybody being able to access justice in this country. The scheme has been reviewed many times since then. I commend my colleagues across the way for highlighting the issue of HAP and any other welfare payments not being used in the calculation for eligibility for legal aid in the future. It is a most welcome development.

I will not be repetitious. Most of the points I wished to make have been covered. In summary, I welcome this development and look forward to its speedy implementation. I have a few questions for the Minister of State. First, would he say that there is enough public awareness out there about the civil legal aid system, as it currently stands? Are people aware of what their rights and entitlements are, or should the State be conducting a publicity campaign on an ongoing basis, showing people that there is help out there for them, they are not alone and justice is not beyond their reach because they may not have enough money in their pockets?

Second, in respect of the income threshold of €18,000 per annum, when was the last time that figure was reviewed? Is it reviewed on a regular basis? Would there be merit in exploring the possibility of introducing a tiered approach for those who are just marginally over the income threshold, so that for those earning €18,500, for example, which is just above the threshold, some assistance could be given?

The issue of fees being paid to those in the legal profession who participate in the civil and criminal legal aid systems was raised by a number of my colleagues earlier in the debate. Some of my colleagues, as practitioners, voiced the opinion that the remuneration they receive for their work is less than adequate. From my perspective as a layperson, I would hate to think that perhaps the quality of legal advice available to me would not be as high as it would if I was paying for it myself privately. I would like to think that the quality of legal advice coming through the legal aid system would be as good as any available. Perhaps the Minister of State would comment on that point.

Finally, I have made reference to the fact that I commend my colleagues across the way on bringing this legislation forward. Is legislation necessary? Unfortunately, we are all aware of the length of time that it takes legislation to go through both Houses. I would certainly like to think that the implementation of this recommendation would be instant, which is to say that it would be introduced much more quickly than it would take for the legislation to go through both Houses. I would welcome it if the Minister of State could provide a timeframe for that. It is not that I am dismissing the legislation for one minute. However, I would like it not to be necessary and for the Government to act in such a swift fashion that the recommendation would be invoked long before the legislation has passed through both Houses.

In summary, I welcome the debate. It is most worthwhile. I commend my colleagues across the way on their input. I look forward to the citizens of our State being able to avail of this new departure relating to HAP sooner rather than later.