Lorraine Clifford-Lee (Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I am here as somebody who has very good knowledge of the civil legal aid scheme. For many years, I was a solicitor on the private practitioner panel and the pilot childcare scheme. I spent my days in the family court working for legal aid clients and very vulnerable families. I know very well the people who have had to go through the civil legal aid system and the challenges they have been facing for a long number of years. When I was a member of the justice committee I raised the issues surrounding civil legal aid scheme at every opportunity I got. There are many issues and we will not discuss all of them this evening. I very much welcome the decision by the Government to review the civil legal aid scheme. It is long overdue.

The civil legal aid system was founded in 1979 by the then Minister, Gerry Collins, a member of Fianna Fáil, to give people access to justice and to allow people in particularly vulnerable positions access to justice. I am very proud to have served a long number of years on the civil legal aid panel and to have worked with people who otherwise would not have had access to justice. The scheme needs to be better resourced. I hope the Minister of State will have a full review of the scheme. It needs better resources and more training for the legal aid solicitors and barristers. It will not be popular to say this but it also needs a better fee structure for the people on the private practitioner panel. We are speaking about very low fees being paid to the legal aid solicitors and barristers, which then impacts on the clients' access to justice because of the limited number of people willing to put themselves on the panel. We need a full review. We need a proper, robust, modern-day fit-for-purpose civil legal aid scheme.

The issue outlined by Senator Boylan and her colleague on HAP being interpreted as income is something I raised in the Chamber a number of months ago. I am glad to see this anomaly is being fixed. People who are accessing the family courts are in a vulnerable position, and those on low incomes are particularly vulnerable when accessing justice. It is an issue I have raised as a member of the justice committee, particularly with regard to women in coercive controlling situations who might be above the financial threshold but in reality might not have any access to money. It has been very difficult for them to access civil legal aid. People need to make a €50 contribution to their legal aid certificate. I had a client who literally squirrelled away 20 cent, 50 cent and a euro here and there so she could eventually save up the €50 for her legal aid certificate so she would be legally represented in court when applying for a barring order. The legal aid board guaranteed me a number of years ago that a waiver is always given. When people in domestic violence situations apply for legal aid a waiver is always given, no matter what their income, if people state they cannot afford the €50. There should have been a different interpretation of HAP with regard to this waiver. I am very glad this has been rectified and I look forward to a very comprehensive review in the action plan.

The commitment to justice and a fair society of the Legal Aid Board and those people employed by it is second to none. I was disappointed when Senator Boylan said the Legal Aid Board was choosing to interpret the regulation so it could save on its budget. I do not think anybody in the Legal Aid Board would have ever chosen to interpret anything to deny anybody access to justice. The 42 week delay is with regard to wider family law. Those divorcing or separating who are accessing legal aid and whose matter is in the District Court are given a certificate to go to the private practitioner panel so there is no delay. However, there are barriers to access to justice and we really need them to be reviewed. It is primarily women who are at the receiving end of this.

A full review involving everybody involved and all the stakeholders is needed. I look forward to discussing the review with the Minister of State. As I have said, I have a long number of years' experience. I am very fortunate to have represented many people from varying backgrounds and varying experiences, including harrowing experiences. We are speaking about custody, access and guardianship, which are the very fundamentals of people's lives.If those aspects are not dealt with by professionals, deep fractures and divisions can evolve in families and those experiences have an impact on children for the rest of their lives. We must ensure access for everybody in these types of situations to representation and to professionals who can calm nerves, allay fears and come up with the best working solutions for those families. I welcome this debate and the action from the Department of Justice and I also welcome a further debate on the civil legal aid system.