Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I thank Members for the lengthy discussion we had last Monday. My understanding was we had spare slots. There was plenty of time left. I certainly did not cut the debate short and I spent all the time here answering everyone's questions, including about credit unions. There was nobody ducking and diving. This is very much being scrutinised and I am happy to do it.

This is similar to debates we had last July and September for very good reason. We are trying to support SMEs. As Senator Casey said, SMEs are under an awful lot of pressure and this will get finance to them. The criteria around size relates to an EU definition of small and medium businesses. We went through the statistics last week of the companies drawing this or funding like this down. More than 6,500 have been approved for the credit guarantee at the moment and 4,500 have drawn it down. They are the companies we are trying to reach.

My reading of the proposed amendment is to put in stricter criteria which will not, in my view, assist companies who need help today because of Brexit drawdown funding. I understand the necessity for us to work with all our SME community around the social and environmental agenda, the labour agenda and many others but this relates to borrowings. They are borrowing and paying it back, with added costs. This is not the State investing in a company or giving away a grant. All that has strong criteria. The criteria used here for our part of the guarantee, the 24%, is the exact same as the European Investment Bank, EIB. Our national bank criteria are the same as the EIB portion. It is 56%, 24% and 20% here. We are facilitating companies with their borrowings to invest in businesses that are active and open today. Social enterprises are allowed once they show they are impacted by Brexit. If Senators have concerns about any particular one, I ask them to give us a shout and I am happy to tease it through with them.

Senator Cummins asked about a company I am not familiar with. If the Credit Review Office reviews it and says it should be lent to, that normally happens. I would be happy to look at that case because that is what the Credit Review Office is.I made the point last week in the House that we did not have the credit guarantees or credit review offices in place quick enough after the last crash. They came into force in 2013 and they were very beneficial. I am glad they are in place. I thank the Houses for their support over the last year in getting these schemes put in place quickly. They will be monitored. We will keep an eye on where the funding is going, as currently happens.

Reference was made to Housing Building Finance Ireland, HBFI. I dealt with a number of small builders who would not have been able to build houses without that funding. It did what it was meant to do, in most cases. It is probably at a later stage that companies go off and enter into agreements, leases and so on, not generally when they are drawing down funding. I am happy to debate the house funding issue, but it is not part of this Bill. This Bill does not deal with investment properties or houses. There is a miscommunication around what is needed in housing to make it happen. We need to have a really long conversation about that, because there is a lot more to the story than some people in this House are trying to make out.

On the point raised by Senator Garvey, the maximum interest rate is 3.75%, but the majority are under 3%. As I discussed with Senator Ahearn in this House last week, 94% are under 3%. Credit unions are open to this as well. I did address the issue last week, but I think the Senator had left the House.