Róisín Garvey (Green Party) | Oireachtas source

Is é sin mo chéad seans labhairt leis an Aire go hoifigiúil sa Teach seo. Is deas é a fheiceáil agus gabhaim buíochas leis. I thank the Minister for his time. I can only imagine what his job is like. I will keep it brief. This year has marked a dramatic change in the banking landscape in Ireland. With the exit of Ulster Bank and KBC Bank from Ireland, as well as the decision of Bank of Ireland to close 88 branches, which has serious affected my county and, I am sure, many others, the need for a new force in banking has never been more keenly felt.

When looking at future policy on banking, it is important to look at who has been most negatively impacted by this structural failure. With regard to SME financing, as spokesperson on enterprise, trade and employment, I am very aware of this sector. A lack of credit has continually been a barrier to growth for many micro, small and medium enterprises. According to the 2019 Indecon report on public banking in Ireland:

Despite the overall levels of new lending there has been a decline in the application rates for bank finance by the SME sector. Application rates for bank finance were 35% in March 2014 and declined to 20% by September 2018.

With regard to financial inclusion, Internet banking is not a viable alternative for some people who cannot access broadband and for some customers with disabilities who may need person-to-person assistance. I spent nearly an hour on Saturday evening trying to help a 77-year-old find out how much money he had in his account. The large banks do not send out statements any more. His bank refused to send him a printed statement and he was told he would have to bank online. I had to set up an online banking account for him but he could not remember the password. Having to deal with things online is very stressful for older people. What annoys me most is that they are probably the most loyal customers the banks have had because the older people are, the longer they have been using their bank account and the more fees they have paid. The thanks they are getting is that there are no human tellers and they are told to do everything online. In many cases, they cannot access the Internet. They have no clue. I could not figure it out for this 77-year-old and I have a degree in computer science. There is something radically wrong there. We are not serving the oldest, who have paid the most to the banks in fees.

With regard to regional access, the removal of banking facilities from communities has an immediate impact on financial inclusion. If everything is being moved online, we have to admit that is what is happening and ask what we are going to do to help deal with it. In some ways, it is great to do everything online because we have to travel less and everything is at our fingertips. I do not find it to be a problem but not everybody in rural areas can do these things online and not everybody can get to their local bank branch because there are now fewer of them. Personally, just a few weeks ago, I discovered that I can get my wages paid into my post office account. At that stage, I decided to try to do as little as possible with the bigger banks and to work with my local post office. I can do that now. I can get my wages into my post office account. An Post will give me a debit card and that is all I need. That was interesting for me. I had not really thought about it before. I presumed one could not do that. Perhaps we need to look at that. Perhaps we have not looked at alternatives that might be better for us and our communities.

Mario Draghi, the then President of the European Central Bank, ECB, pointed to the structure of Ireland's banking system as the main reason for the continuing high cost of mortgages in Ireland at a recent appearance before the Joint Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach. With some of the most expensive mortgage rates in the European Union, and now only two large lenders, the market has failed to provide adequate competition for Irish customers. A principle of regional banking would see money saved in the region of the bank lent out in the same region. This is something the Green Party has been on about for years.I remember when I joined first, maybe 20 years ago, there was talk about localised banking services and we have recently launched a policy on that. I commend my Green Party colleague in Louth, Mark Dearey, for his work on this over many years. I thank him for being ahead of the game.

This model has four differences from that relating to traditional banking. First, it has a business model that is profit-making but not profit-maximising. A public bank must have profits in order to survive and grow but the core goal of the public bank is to create value and sustainability for communities. We now have an opportunity, due to these banks leaving, to be creative and to find a new model that has worked in other countries. Second, it has a defined regional basis. A public bank has a clear geographical area within which it operates, which allows it to gain in-depth knowledge of the area and build lasting relationships within communities. We see this happening less and less, apart from the odd token sponsored event by a bigger bank, and the bigger banks are definitely more disconnected from communities than they used to be. Third, it has a decentralised, network structure. Each bank would be independent, with decisions taken locally, and the network would jointly own a service provider that would allow efficiencies and uniformity of products, costs and controls. Fourth, it involves a stakeholder model. The public ownership model allows banks to avoid focusing on shareholder value and speculation and, instead, to focus on the real economy.

I want to mention several points the three parties agreed in the programme for Government. We said we would introduce SEAR in order to deliver heightened accountability within the banking system. We have a financial regulator, but we need to get this right. We are all scarred from the history of the past in banking but the present Government cannot be blamed for that. It is up to us to try to make things better and maybe give people more confidence in the whole banking sector. As a Government, we have committed to prioritising green finance strategic actions that are developed in line with climate justice targets and sustainable development goals. We have committed to enabling and supporting the credit union movement to grow, and to supporting credit unions in the expansion of services to encourage community development. In many smaller towns and villages, we have good credit unions where we no longer have banks.

We could talk at length about An Post. We all know the story of the closure of post offices but the more services they can provide, including banking services, the more chance there is of them surviving.

I spent an hour and a quarter on the helpline just before I came to the House, trying to see what it would be like for an older person doing this online. I spent an hour and a quarter and pressed lots of buttons, but nobody answered the phone. We have to do better, especially for older people.