Martin Conway (Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

The Minister of State is very welcome to the House. I commend Senator Alice Mary Higgins on what is very prudent legislation. For too long procurement has been price driven. The rule of thumb is 15% in terms of quality and 85% in terms of price but that is not reflective of a modern world where we want and deserve quality. I refer to one of the well known examples that is in the public domain, namely, the children's hospital. If a different approach to the tendering was operated for the children's hospital there would have been a far different outcome. That is one example but there are hundreds of examples that we are all aware of where contracts were awarded to outfits that should not have had those contracts awarded. There have been schools which turned out to have defects and the quality was questionable, to say the least, so the need for this legislation is urgent. We need to get it right but I am not quite convinced that a 12-month deferral was necessary but I bow to the Minister of State's better judgment on that.He is starting into a very interesting brief. If he believes that in 12 months' time we will get it right, I will take his word on that, but I would like to be back in 12 months' time when we have got it right. The are many examples of where we have not got it right.

I also want to talk about the phenomenal number of cost overruns that have taken place on projects over the past 20 or 30 years. The only projects that have come in on time and under budget have been motorway projects. Practically all other projects have gone over budget because they were awarded to the cheapest tender, which was not always necessarily the best. In many cases the quantity surveyor, QS, work did not identify issues that emerged. Who ends up paying at the end of the day? It is the taxpayer, the people of Ireland. That would not happen if we had a different approach to procurement.

Senator Seery Kearney spoke about the guidelines that were introduced in 2019. Considerable work went into those guidelines and they are by and large a good set of guidelines. While this debate is necessary, action is critical. I sincerely hope we can address this because ultimately it will save money. Ultimately, there is a better chance at least we will be able to stand over the quality of the work that will eventually be done.

I would like to know what happens internationally because we seem to get it so wrong so often, yet in other countries they do not get it as wrong. It cannot be rocket science. In the upcoming 12-month period, the Minister of State might investigate what is happening internationally and see if we can learn from it. Senator Higgins always comes up with Private Members' Bills that are very thoughtful and very responsive to societal need and I commend her on this one. I sincerely hope the Minister of State will engage with her. She had similar legislation in the previous Seanad. I have no doubt what is before us now is a much-improved version of that. If the Minister of State can engage with her, I am sure what will emerge as the end product will save money for Ireland and will improve the quality of public works for decades to come.