Seanad debates

Friday, 26 March 2021

Residential Tenancies Bill 2021: Second Stage

 

10:30 am

Photo of Vincent P MartinVincent P Martin (Green Party) | Oireachtas source

It is good to see the Minister of State in the House again. I listened attentively to his opening remarks. The purpose of this Bill is, in essence, to help people stay in their homes. It is important not to forget that. We are legislators and are here to constructively criticise, and I hope the Minister of State will take the following points on board. At the end of the day, the Government's move here is to protect family dwellings to ensure families are safe.

Dispensing with pre-legislative scrutiny should be used on the most rare of occasions but this legislation might well justify it. Many months ago, I was at a meeting of the Joint Committee on Justice at which we were urged to dispense with pre-legislative scrutiny in respect of the Personal Insolvency (Amendment) Bill and it did not come before the House for several moths afterwards. We dealt with that Bill a few weeks ago. It introduced remote meetings and other small amendments deemed urgent enough to dispense with pre-legislative scrutiny, yet it took several months. I do not ever want to see an overuse or abuse of dispensing with pre-legislative scrutiny but I accept that this legislation is time sensitive. I also accept the Minister of State's point in respect of property rights. It would be a very foolish lawyer who would advise a person in a private dwelling about the wonderful, pre-eminent constitutional protection for a dwelling without looking closely at other rights that are in play in the Constitution, such as property rights. One cannot but consider them. An eradication or severe attack on the property rights in the Constitution would cause thousands upon thousands of landlords to run to the hills, and I say that as someone with a background in standing up for householders. It is a very challenging and delicate balancing act and, of course, one has to be proportionate. It is a question of whether the period could have been somewhat longer than three months rather than - I hate to say it - bringing us all back possibly in three months' time. We have seen this before in the House. Our ultra-conservative steps, for fear we will trespass or engage property rights in a negative way, are tying at least one hand behind our back at times as legislators. We have countervailing rights in the Constitution but we should not be ultra-deferential towards them. We should work as hard as possible to determine whether we can stay within the remit of the constitutional provision and yet do as much that is positive as possible.

I am concerned about the 5 km stipulation. Even the Independent Scientific Advocacy Group, which is the advocate of zero Covid, has said it is open to flexibility and some latitude. I am opposed to the blanket rule on the 5 km radius throughout the Republic of Ireland. My constituency and that of the Minister of State have both urban and rural parts. If I spent a day canvassing in some of the beautiful, panoramic areas of rural Kildare North, within a radius of 5 km, I would not get to very many houses, yet, even within a 5 km radius in a highly densely populated area, it would take me days to get through the houses. It is not comparing like with like. I am concerned and I fear Senator McDowell is correct in this regard. Is the policy going to shatter hope if we are handcuffed until 12 July? People might have only five friends or encounter five dwellings within a 5 km radius and many of their close family members and friends may be beyond that. If a journey beyond the radius is not to do an essential duty or offer an essential service, it may not be taken. Are there any assurances that the Minister of State can give us in respect of what I fear might be the unintended consequence of supporting this measure?

I will use my remaining time to make a point I have made previously: there is a requirement for a consolidation of the legislation. Experts find it so difficult to navigate through it. It is not accessible to non-experts. We really have to consider consolidation, demystification and simplification to make the Act more accessible and facilitate implementation. It is all over the place at this stage. If there were ever a need for a consolidated Act, it would be in this area.

I commend the Department on the improved website. For years, it was little short of an embarrassment. I am aware I am not comparing like with like in saying that while taxing one's car on the website has been so easy to do, navigating the old RTB website was at times so challenging for many of the stakeholders. Therefore, I welcome the improvement.

I am aware that the Department and board of the RTB can decide to have one-person tribunals. The relatively recent legislation no longer insists that there be three people on a tribunal, despite its obvious name "tribunal". I am a great believer in the three-person tribunal. Three heads are better than one. It involves a quasi-judicial role. The members are not trained, expert judges, yet there is so much at stake. I accept that in certain circumstances, a one-member tribunal would save money if there were a very simple issue.

I welcomed a number of years ago the introduction of the slip rule. Since the role of a member of the tribunal is quasi-judicial, there is rigid statutory interpretation by members and adjudicators in the first instance. Before the slip rule was introduced, it was farcical.Before it came in, it was farcical. People, tenants and landlords, were losing their cases almost because a "t" was not crossed or an "i" was not dotted, there was a digit out of place in the year or there was a misspelling. I ask the Minister of State to give that feedback to the Department which I am sure has good data on that. That slip rule has really been a Godsend, and also instills more confidence in the RTB.

The phone mediation service is going exceptionally well at present. For the first time, the RTB can deal with cases remotely. My prediction and hope - maybe the Minister of State will confirm this - is that the remote hearings will survive the pandemic. There were only seven or eight venues throughout Ireland, but many of these matters can be dealt with effectively and most efficiently by remote hearings, which, I hope, are here to stay.

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