Mary Seery Kearney (Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Minister of State for being here today. I really welcome this Bill and the updates of the provisions within personal insolvency. They are very much needed and they get my absolute and entire support.

I had the pleasure of meeting Senator Martin for the very first time when I was newly called to the Bar and I volunteered with New Beginning in its early days. Perhaps much of my perspective around this matter is framed by the extraordinary line of people who came in seeking support. I would sit in with Senator Martin or others for consultations and listen to the sheer plight of people who found themselves, in many cases through absolutely no fault of their own, in horrific circumstances and with the risk of losing their home. I view everything through that lens and have done since. I have gone on in a voluntary capacity, in other guises and through FLAC, other organisations and on a one-to-one basis, to supporting families as they have navigated this.

It is a really sad situation we find ourselves in that we are looking at an economic or other set of circumstances where another whole cohort of people will be relying on these provisions and looking to this to afford themselves an opportunity for a restart. I thank all of the people in Money Advice and Budgeting Service who do a fantastic job all of the time in supporting individuals and families, and I also thank FLAC for what it does.

I acknowledge all of the really great changes in this proposed legislation, but one thing remains that I have a distaste for, which is the expenditure norms that are set out in the updated document for reasonable living expenses, background information, last published in August 2020.Anyone wishing to engage with the provision of the primary legislation here must compile a budget and outline detailed reasonable living expenses. They must go down that route in the document set out by the Insolvency Service of Ireland.

Nobody looks down the barrel of insolvency lightly. By the time a person makes the decision to engage a personal insolvency practitioner, PIP, he or she has probably tried every other possible avenue within his or her control. The idea of a person putting himself or herself in a regime for anything up to six years can be quite onerous. He or she does it as a last resort. I am sure, therefore, the process of detailing all one's expenses on paper and eliminating what costs can be eliminated must be quite an experience of mourning and loss.

Appendix B of the Reasonable Living Expenses Background Information: Tackling Problem Debt, Together document sets out the reasonable living expenses and to be honest, I find them quite extraordinary. The costs detailed within the table in appendix B are set out as monthly costs. Food, clothing and personal care are perhaps reasonable for a couple of people, and perhaps children, in a household. I can see how that can be reasonable. However, heating at a cost of €70.80 per month and home insurance at €12.25 per month amounts to €147 per year. Car insurance at a cost of €24.25 per month amounts to €291 per year. I have brought this up several times in this House. I have written to the Minister previously about it. I would sincerely like to meet the people who set these as budgetary norms. I would like to hand them my finances and let them give me back all the amazing savings. I would be in a better position if I could live within those norms. They are completely out of sync with the average cost of car and home insurance. They bear no resemblance to reality and cause much hardship for people with whom I have spoken.

The table sets out a personal cost allowance of 97 cent per month, which is €11.64 per year; let us go really mad and call it 23 cent per week. I am not sure what was behind setting that out in the table. It is, however, thoughtless and careless to the plight and real experience of people as they sit down to use this as their navigating document.