Martin Conway (Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I listened with great interest to Senator Murphy and his experience with Cloverhill Prison. I want to comment on what Senator McDowell said. I do not necessarily subscribe to the view that Thornton Hall was a mistake and I certainly do not subscribe to the view that it should have been scaled back. There was potential there for a centre of excellence where we would have had as many supports as possible on the one campus. Just because we are speaking about scaling up does not mean scaling in a bad way.

It is correct that this is not even 5% of what we need to be doing but it is still an incremental positive step and, in fairness, Senator McDowell acknowledged this. The statistic that has been quoted, that the average stay of a person in the Central Mental Hospital is four years, is troubling and worrying. We have a situation where judges have no choice but to commit people with mental illness to jail and it is not acceptable. This is why we need to scale up. This is why Portrane is a significant improvement.

It is hard to know the timeline for getting this right. A visit by the Oireachtas committees on health and justice to Portrane in the first quarter of 2021 to see what is being done is something the Minister of State and her officials might facilitate.Members who have an interest in the issue but who are not on either committee should be afforded the opportunity to come along.

Having listened to Senator McDowell's comments about what he did in this regard while in government, I have great admiration for him. His record speaks for itself. He was correct to put on the record what he said about the report into the murder of Mr. Gary Douch in particular. These are important issues and need to be aired, heard and acted upon. Like Senator Murphy, I am unsure of the amendment's status. I hope that it will flag that this issue needs more consideration in the House. I am unsure as to whether the amendment will be pressed, but it has given the issue an airing. The issue should get further airings.

Senator Bacik is right about the penal reform report. Its recommendations were groundbreaking. Many reports by Oireachtas committees make good proposals, but do the committees or their successors in subsequent terms ever follow up on them and carry out critical analyses of what was achieved as a result of the reports, the investment of time, effort and taxpayers' resources that went into compiling them and whether they made any real difference? At the time, this particular report got a significant airing in the media and was welcomed by stakeholders, those with an interest in the matter and even the then Government. The evolving implementation of the recommendations, which were welcomed and lauded, needs to be scoped out. Perhaps a body like the Seanad Public Consultation Committee could examine some of these critical reports and whether we achieved our aims.

The Minister of State is listening. I do not doubt her commitment to this issue. If the House is discussing this matter again in 2023 or 2024 after the Minister of State and her team have had a good run at it for 36 or 48 months, I believe we will have seen a difference. I am confident of that, based on what she did while in opposition and what she has done since 1 July.